Liberaltarian Lessons from OKTrends?

by Will Wilkinson on April 3, 2010

Via Yglesias, I find this fascinating post from OKCupid’s OKTrends largely about the relationship of political beliefs and age. If you run through the whole thing first, the following will make a lot more sense. Now, there’s a lot interesting stuff there, though do be careful not to confuse cohort effects with life-cycle effects (the author raises a flag, but it may not get enough emphasis). That is to say, older people’s politics look a lot different from younger people’s not so much because they are older, but because they are part of a different generational cohort. Different generations grew up under different economic and cultural conditions, and this affects their values throughout life. It’s exceedingly unlikely that today’s 20-somethings will ever be as socially conservative as today’s 60-somethings. There are life-cycle effects, but the age-related changes tend to tend to stay within the gravitational field of relatively stable points fixed in adolescence and young adulthood.

That said, let’s look at some of these charts. Be warned: I am not intimate with this data, and this is just me riffing based on my sense of it. I will not be surprised to discover I am making some silly mistake. But let us be bold.

The points are average location in a Nolan Chart-like two dimensional space for each age from 18-60. There are of course people of each age all over the map. (I’m a 37 year-old with political opinions that would land me close to the typical 18 year-old.) This is just showing you where you’re most likely to find a 20 year-old or a 50 year-old.

So how does this relate to party identification?

This is a simplification, since economic and social issues are not of equal importance to everyone at every age. So, if you pick an age, the relative weight people of that age put on social and economic issues will shift the party ID line.  So here’s how the relative importance of economic and social issues for 28 year-olds divides the partisan space.

(You can move the line around by moving the slider on the OKCupid post; these are screen grabs. )

I’m especially interested in the upper left quadrant — the libertarian quadrant.  If you’re a 28 year-old and in the libertarian space, you are more likely than not to lean Democrat. (More than half the area in the libertarian quadrant is on the “will tend Democrat” side of the line.)

In contrast:

51 year-olds in the libertarian space are much more likely to lean Republican. (Well more than half the libertarian quadrant is on the “will tend Republican side of the line.”)

Let’s look at the overlap of these two charts in the libertarian quadrant:

Let’s call the pink triangle the “libertarian contested zone.” If you’re a Baby Boomer or older with views in the contested zone, you probably lean Republican. If you’re Gen-X or younger and fall in the contested zone, you probably lean Democrat. 20 year-olds and 50 year-olds occupying the exact same point on the matrix may have relatively large differences in major party sympathies.

Because older libertarians in the contested zone lean Republican, they probably feel comfortable with elements of right-wing political culture that may have little or nothing to do with their opinions on issues which determined their place on the grid. They’ll be fairly patriotic, find Founder worship relatively unproblematic, feel a bit antagonized by “political correctness” and relatively untroubled by casual “commonsense” race and gender stereotypes, and will generally  feel sympathetic to conservative assumptions about American identity. They’re a bit hawkish and worried about Islamism. They might make a show of enjoying guns, steaks, and cigars. They’re inclined to get a kick out of Glenn Beck. Or so I conjecture.

Because younger libertarians in the contested zone lean Democratic, they probably feel comfortable with elements of left-wing political culture  that may have little or nothing to do with their opinions on issues which determined their place on the grid. They’ll probably be relatively cosmopolitan, inclined to celebrate diversity, and sensitive to ongoing discrimination against women, ethnic minorities, and gays.  They’ll be relatively unimpressed with rhetorical appeals to the Constitution, the Founding Fathers, and the virtues of really real American red-state American identity. They’re a bit dovish and worried about civil liberties under the Patriot Act. The might make a show of eating ethically, a penchant for indie rock, and a well-worn passport. They’re inclined to think Glenn Beck is a maudlin fool. So I say.

So what does all this suggest?

One thing it suggests that the neo-Fusionist elements of the Tea Party movement are attractive primarily to older people. And I suspect that the more strongly certain libertarian ideas and tendencies are associated with the cultural politics of Baby Boomer conservative Republicans, the more strongly young people with libertarian inclinations will tend to identify with the Democratic Party and take on cultural assumptions and characteristics common to liberals. Here’s my bottom line. Democratic-leaning libertarian young adults are the primary “liberaltarian” constituency. They are to my mind who liberaltarianism is intended for. Liberaltarianism or libertarian-liberal fusionism is not about some ridiculous practical political coalition between Larry Kudlow and Bill Galston. It is about building a coherent, appealing,  practical ideological identity for all those libertarian-ish young folks who don’t want a damn thing to do with the party of old, angry religious white people.

  • What's missing in this analysis is any question of what these young targets of liberaltarianism believe as a matter of principle, as opposed to simply policy. Yes, they are often socially permissive, but do they actually believe in libertarian freedoms? I have my doubts, and I think their economic restrictiveness betrays, as Milton Friedman said, a lack of belief in freedom itself.

    I think their social permissiveness, on the other hand, is just as likely to come from mere selfishness (I want to do this thing, therefore it should be permitted), and not from a principled understanding and belief of individual freedom. This allows them to do things like, for instance, support smoking marijuana while railing against and demanding government regulation of "Big Tobacco."

    While I don't at all begrudge Will for trying, I continue to think this liberaltarian thing is a bust, and a waste of time. Economic freedoms are just too fundamental to all freedoms, and they are too quick to reject them.
  • I question your suggestion that the older, culturally conservative libertarians are "a bit hawkish and worried about Islamism" compared to the more dovish younger crowd. The branch of libertarianism that is the most culturally conservative, the Lew Rockwell/Mises Institute/Ron Paul/paleo crowd, has also been the most consistently antiwar. Pro-war libertarianism has been conspicuously more common among more liberal-friendly libertarians like Brink Lindsey and some of the writers at Reason magazine.
  • "Liberalitarianism... is about building a coherent, appealing, practical ideological identity for all those libertarian-ish young folks who don’t want a damn thing to do with the party of old, angry religious white people."

    YES. Thanks for writing this.
  • Liberaltarianism = socialist ends by free market means.
  • y81
    "It’s exceedingly unlikely that today’s 20-somethings will ever be as socially conservative as today’s 60-somethings."

    Today's 60 somethings were the people who protested the Vietnam War, invented free love and the sexual revolution, "tuned in, turned on and dropped out" etc. Today's 20 year olds are much more socially conservative than today's 60 somethings were when they were 20, and will probably remain so.
  • And it's important to note that there are a lot of 60 year olds in today's Democratic Party. Just as many of them were fighting for the Vietnam War as against it at the time.

    Also important - what constitutes conservative now would have been quite liberal now. Most conservatives will at least not admit to not wanting blacks to vote, but back then it was considered a legitimate issue. And gay marriage wasn't even on the radar, but now it's essentially inevitable. The definition of liberal and conservative in the social arena has, as a whole shifted widely left. This puts more people on the right, but not because they are further right, simply that the window itself is further left.
  • u67
    I think you may be describing the ones who got most of the media attention. I see what your saying and I think that's important to remember, but on average I suspect today's 60 year old was less socially liberal than todays 2o year old. The things that both generations were told during their formative years were very different.
  • kent
    Agree 100% with u67. The hippies et al were reacting against a very conformist atmosphere. To take but one famous example, The Rolling Stones couldn't even play "Let's Spend the Night Together" on TV without changing the lyrics. Can you even imagine such a thing today? There's no hippies these days in large part because there's no conformist atmosphere to rebel against.

    My parents are 60-something liberals (very liberal: white northerners who spent years in the Deep South during the 1960's and early 1970's trying to do their part in the civil rights struggle), but they still struggle very hard to be open-minded about sexuality, for instance. It's just not how they were raised. A few of their hangups were transmitted to me, but to a much lesser degree (I'm 40). My son is 11 and lives in a completely different world. I'm 99% certain that he won't even be able to understand what my parents' hangups were all about.
  • Paul Zrimsek
    For the Rolling Stones example to be of much help in rescuing the cohort theory, the restrictions against which the hippies were rebelling would need to have been the work ( or at least had the blessing) of their contemporaries, instead of being enforced by people who'd come of age in the 1930s.

    Age cohorts probably do a better job of explaining individuals' positions on the economic axis. While I wouldn't want to say that people are more influenced in their personal lives by social issues than economic ones, I think that effect is more directly comprehensible, less mediated by theory, in the case of social issues. My hunch, then, is that we stake out a position on the economic axis early in life based on the state of folk theory at the time (and judge later events in terms of theory instead of the other way around)-- and subsequently maintain that left/right position on the chart while drifting more or less straight downward towards more social restrictiveness based on experience or the rigidity of age, take your pick.
  • I just noticed something with that data. If you look at the social views there is a fairly strong ramp in liberal values starting with people who are now 40. The key question for American politics is what does that chart look like with the hot button social issues of 20 years from now. Does it it become a ramp starting at age 60, does it level off somewhere, or does it stay a ramp starting at 40?
  • One thing you might consider is that even among economic libertarians there might be significant disagreement. I am very supportive of free trade and I hate corporate welfare, but I think a tax on carbon emissions or the banning of factory farms would make sense. Also, eating steaks isn't libertarian any more than eating babies is.
  • silentbeep
    This is who I think, liberaltarianism will appeal most to, at this point in time: young Californians. Anyone who is even half aware of what's going on in my state, knows that fiscally at the local government level, it's a nightmare. We need better regulatory and tax policy in this state, and a more favorable climate to economic freedom. Basically, we have no money and we are broke and it's a mess, and it's been this way for a while, and it's just getting worse. It's a spectacularly agonizing time for local government right now in California, at the economic level (it's not just the recession, our tax and regulatory problems are deeper than that).

    With all of these economic concerns, the truth still remains that the state is still very much socially liberal. It is still true that they are many "red" spots strewn throughout the state i.e. fiscally and socially conservative but those spots are fading with time.


  • Is there any worry that this segment might not be representative due to the fact that OKCupid's responders (I assume) are unmarried or at least people seeking relationships? I'm not trying to score critique points or anything, since I don't have any argument with your conclusions, but I seriously don't know -- do attached individuals usually have different political views that those who are seeking relationships?

    I honestly have no idea, the only category I can think of would be that since younger people are perceived to skew liberal, that if you were attempting to attract one of them, claiming to also be liberal might help your chances. Of course, maybe I was just too lazy to read all the fine print on the other side of the link.
  • Matt C
    Will, can you drop some names for me:

    a) who can I read as good examples of the "liberaltarianism" that you're talking about? Blogs are easiest, but I'll take books.

    b) who do you see as intelligent, principled liberals who a libertarian would benefit from reading? I can't see any "vision" in the writings of guys like Klein or Yglesias, it's all policy cheerleading and rationalization. Who is someone on the progressive side who has a clear, principled worldview they're trying to communicate?
  • A) The League of Ordinary Gentleman is probably the best libertarian blog on the internet. http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/ The writers have diverse viewpoints, but you'll find some really great "liberaltarian" examples in some of their writing.

    B) Paul Krugman is probably the best liberal for a libertarian to read. He has extremely strong economic arguments for his liberal viewpoints, which I suspect libertarians will find more compelling than moral arguments, which appeal more to us fluffy liberals and socialists. Additionally, PZ Myers is a good blogger in general who touches on liberal politics from an atheist/humanist perspective, which you may enjoy. I like them both for their clear, well expressed, and philosophically consistent worldviews.
  • silentbeep
    Yglesias says "liberaltarian" things more than you realize it's fascinating actually. Check out his wal-mart post called "competition is good" (yes, praising wal-mart) and also his posts extoling the virtues of Chile's pro-economic freedom policies. He's pro- local government pension reform as well. He's not exactly pro-post office either he's basically like "do we need this anymore?" He surprises me sometimes.
  • Matt C
    Well, I just spent an hour or so reading a semi-random selection of his posts.

    You're right that he has some appreciation for markets that is sincere and not merely for the sake of rhetoric. And he has more interest in ideas that I thought. I appreciate the correction.

    That said, if he is supposed to be a good example of "liberaltarianism", I'm not very encouraged about this alliance being a good deal for libertarians. There is a whole lot more progressive-planner there than there is libertarian.
  • silentbeep
    Well, I should've made it clear: he definitely considers himself a liberal, not libertarian at all. I suggested him because I think he is a good example of someone who displays liberaltarian tendencies - but he is not interested in libertarianism in and of itself, not at all.

    As far as alliance: I don't think liberaltariansim is "good" for liberals or libertarains per se. It's good for people who don't fit neatly into those categories but are attracted to both. I consider myself liberaltarian.
  • Matt C
    > It's good for people who don't fit neatly into those categories but are attracted to both.

    Fair enough.

    A central idea--arguably the central idea--of modern progressivism is believing in government action to improve the world. We can, and we should, look to the state as an agency of progress.

    Obviously libertarianism is much the opposite view, sometimes going all the way to anarchism.

    They don't seem very compatible to me. I am guessing that you have a different notion of progressivism than what I describe above. But maybe you have a different notion of libertarianism. Or maybe something else. Anyway, I'd like to hear more about why you are a liberaltarian if you'd like to remark on it.

    And if there ever gets to be enough of you to have a website or a mailing list, you have got to find a better name for yourselves. :)
  • silentbeep
    "We can, and we should, look to the state as an agency of progress."

    I am skeptical of the above statement to such a degree, that I don't fit in to a typical modern liberal p.o.v. I think in certain instances this may be true, depending on the situation but of course, there can be serious downsides to governmental involvement as an agent of progress i.e. deadening bureacracy, over-regulation (just as a few examples, I could go on, but ya know, this isn't my blog).

    I think a liberaltarian, perhaps, would be comfortable with someone like Hayek who was definitely not an anarcho-capitalist, but saw that in certain instances the government is needed. Heck, even someone like Megan McArdle (not a liberaltarian!) is skeptical of outsourcing public services.

    I don't agree with you that the central idea of liberalism is believing in government action for improving the world - the central lidea is helping people, period. In so far as liberals are statists, it's because I think many believe that government is the best way to help people. I belive that just isn't true and liberals can stand to be far more critical of the state than they currently are - and liberals are far too critical of the private sector and free markets. I think many liberals underestimate the free market as an agent of change, as an agent of progress, as an agent of freedom, in and of itself; in fact, underestimation is to put it mildly for some, I think there is some outright hostility against the private sector in general.

    I have a below comment explaining my experience as a Californian, which has lead to this internal development as a "liberaltarian."
  • "I don't agree with you that the central idea of liberalism is believing in government action for improving the world - the central lidea is helping people, period. In so far as liberals are statists, it's because I think many believe that government is the best way to help people."

    This seems far too broad. By this standard, the category "liberal" would encompass virtually every political ideology, with the possible exception of some of the hardcore "deep ecology" environmentalists.

    "I think many liberals underestimate the free market as an agent of change, as an agent of progress, as an agent of freedom, in and of itself; in fact, underestimation is to put it mildly for some, I think there is some outright hostility against the private sector in general. "

    Agreed, and this gets to one of the things that makes me skeptical of the project. A lot of liberals seem to regard markets and the private sector the way some of the more ascetic early Christians regarded sex- it's a dirty, morally and spiritually suspect business, but unfortunately you need a certain amount of it to keep society going.
  • silentbeep
    See someone's below definition of liberaltarianism: socialist ends with free market means. As far as "helping"people I should definie what "help" means for a liberal: creating opportunites for freedom, happiness in terms of being able to choose a lifestyle that best expresses one's individuality, fulfillment and creativity with a large appreciation and tolerance for cultural diversity. Happiness does not mean in this context living within stringent moral, traditional, conservative ideas of what brings happiness i.e. family, God, country.

    As far as some liberals thinking that the free market is "dirty" I'd say to them: then liberaltarianism is not for you. In my mind this isn't about getting people who are firmly liberal to "give up" all their ideas about freedom. As I said above, I think a liberaltarian project is for people who already have modern liberal tendencies with a strong appreciation for markets. If you are a liberal that doesn't care for markets, than yeah, it's not going to work for you. If you are a liberal (like me!) who sees markets as providing opportunities for improving people's lives with more freedom and more happiness due to increased standards of living, then this may be an attractive project.
  • silentbeep
    See someone's below definition of liberaltarianism: socialist ends with free market means. As far as "helping"people I should definie what "help" means for a liberal: creating opportunites for freedom, happiness in terms of being able to choose a lifestyle that best expresses one's individuality, fulfillment and creativity with a large appreciation and tolerance for cultural diversity. Happiness does not mean in this context living within stringent moral, traditional, conservative ideas of what brings happiness i.e. family, God, country.

    As far as some liberals thinking that the free market is "dirty" I'd say to them: then liberaltarianism is not for you. In my mind this isn't about getting people who are firmly liberal to "give up" all their ideas about freedom. As I said above, I think a liberaltarian project is for people who already have modern liberal tendencies with a strong appreciation for markets. If you are a liberal that doesn't care for markets, than yeah, it's not going to work for you. If you are a liberal (like me!) who sees markets as providing opportunities for improving people's lives with more freedom and more happiness due to increased standards of living, then this may be an attractive project.
  • silentbeep
    See someone's below definition of liberaltarianism: socialist ends with free market means. As far as "helping"people I should definie what "help" means for a liberal: creating opportunites for freedom, happiness in terms of being able to choose a lifestyle that best expresses one's individuality, fulfillment and creativity. Happiness does not mean in this context living withint stringent moral, traditional rules i.e. family, god, country.

    As far as this liberals thinking that the free market is "dirty" I'd say to them: then liberalitarianism is not for you. In my mind this isn't about getting people who are firmly liberal to "give up" all their ideas about freedom. As I said above, I think a liberaltarian project is for people who already have liberal tendences with a strong appreciation for markets. If you are a liberal that doesn't care for markets, than yeah, it's not going to work for you.
  • Matt C
    Thanks for the reply. One last question. I'm still curious about the progressive "vision". If you have a favorite writer who communicates liberal ideals well, one who makes you say, "yes! this is what it means to be a progressive", I'd be interested to know who that was.
  • silentbeep
    Well, there are several: Ta-Nehisi Coates @ The Atlantic, Joe Conason mainly @ Salon.com and Paul Krugman's books especially Conscience of a Liberal ( not so much his blog posts or articles taken individually, it's his books where his vision is articulated best).
  • billy p
    I'm not Will, but here's an answer nonetheless:

    1) Brink Lindey's Age of Abundance is probably a good place to start

    2) Andrew Sullivan!!! Haha. That's actually a pretty tough question.
  • jamesvonderhaar
    Unfortunately, my personal experience doesn't bear this out.

    While revealing my past as an ACLU volunteer wasn't quite as scandalous to the other Koch Fellows with whom I worked over this past summer as it would have been to the mainstream libertarians of the 60s, I still felt like a distinct minority in my generally liberal (as a social category, not in political opinions) outlook on life. At least, as compared with my college experience, but I suppose it shouldn't be incredibly surprising that people advocating for free market solutions would be a bit less socially liberal than classics majors.

    It does call into question to what extent the institutional libertarian movement is capturing the bands highlighted in the above graphs. Given their past, the libertarian institutions of today are more likely to have a republican party identification than a democratic one. If Will's right, that means that there's a pretty wide swathe of Democrats generally more pro-market than their peers but unwilling to compromise on their love of gays and arugula to support either republican or conventionally libertarian initiatives and candidates. All of which is to say that the Koch foundation may not be representative of the highlighted band, but be getting those on the republican side of the line.
  • James, You say:

    "If Will's right, that means that there's a pretty wide swathe of Democrats generally more pro-market than their peers but unwilling to compromise on their love of gays and arugula to support either republican or conventionally libertarian initiatives and candidates. All of which is to say that the Koch foundation may not be representative of the highlighted band, but be getting those on the republican side of the line."

    This is exactly what I have in mind! Thank you.

    The young people in the northeast 1/2 of the libertarian quandrant almost surely don't identify as libertarian, since libertarianism as they understand it is unpalatably right-wing. I know this observation antagonizes young people who do identify as libertarian and feel some allegiance to to the status quo libertarian institutions, and like Ron Paul, etc. Sorry about that.
  • billy p
    Even though, thus far, President Obama may have been a step back for liberaltarianism, I must say that, as a project, it is so ripe with potential that I get all warm and fuzzy when I think about it.

    Will - when you do start a liberaltarianism think-tank, I will quit my job or drop out of school and be your first intern! Please, more posts on this.
  • ttfr55
    Interesting blog, Will, but it’s missing an important part of the equation: Generation Jones (between the Boomers and Generation X). Google Generation Jones, and you’ll see it’s gotten lots of media attention, and many top commentators from many top publications and networks (Washington Post, Time magazine, NBC, Newsweek, ABC, etc.) now specifically use this term. In fact, the Associated Press' annual Trend Report chose the Rise of Generation Jones as the #1 trend of 2009.

    It is important to distinguish between the post-WWII demographic boom in births vs. the cultural generations born during that era. Generations are a function of the common formative experiences of its members, not the fertility rates of its parents. And most analysts now see generations as getting shorter (usually 10-15 years now), partly because of the acceleration of culture. Many experts now believe it breaks down more or less this way:

    DEMOGRAPHIC boom in babies: 1946-1964
    Baby Boom GENERATION: 1942-1953
    Generation Jones: 1954-1965
    Generation X: 1966-1978
    Generation Y/Millennials: 1979-1993

    Here are some good links about GenJones I found:

    http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20090127/column27_st.art.htm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ta_Du5K0jk

    http://generationjones.com/2009latest.html
  • Paul Zrimsek
    So what the cohort theory is telling us is that those 60-year-olds in the lower right corner wouldn't be so socially restrictive if only they'd come of age in the 1960s instead of... ummm. Hmmm.
  • who don’t want a damn thing to do with the party of old, angry religious white people.


    Isn't Ron Paul an "old, angry religious white person?" Pro-life and anti-immigration, too. Didn't he do pretty well with these people?
  • Like Gil, I have to wonder what makes these young people part libertarian.
  • I'm a bit skeptical that what they're calling economically permissive is really libertarian economic policy. I wish it were true, that the young are trending libertarian, but I'm not sure they are.

    It would be interesting if we had similar data over a long period of time, so we could tell how much the observed differences are due to the generational differences vs. life-cycle changes.
  • sconover
    Yikes, I don't think I like the fact that I'm that easy to figure out. But there it is. Nice post.
  • Darf
    I see.

    As opposed to the young, angry, and racially diverse people who are ALWAYS ( i.e., not merely during an economic meltdown) yelling and screaming (and often violent) while marching or shouting people down who have opposing views on a college campus? Oh, you don't care much for them either? Well maybe people who don't subscribe to the liberal part of your ideology don't care for and angry minority you've identified either. Such is the danger of using caricatures as props to broadly define the "other side".


  • Ogami Itto
    Apparently Will touched a raw nerve there, Darf. Chill out, dude.
  • anon
    Yeah, it's about building an aesthetically pleasing movement ideologically similar to the party of the old, angry religious white people but different because formed in reaction to it. Identity is right, but (and so) good luck with the coherence.
blog comments powered by Disqus

Previous post:

Next post: