Comments on: A Little Mystic Nationalism

By: Eunomia » Thanksgiving

Eunomia » Thanksgiving — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:32:54 +0000

[...] Thanksgiving Posted on November 27th, 2009 by Daniel Larison Digg Stumble Upon Newsvine Slashdot Mixx Diigo Google Delicious Reddit Facebook I strenuously disagree that a little mystic nationalism is “a good and healthy thing.” But I heartily agree with what I take Jonah to imply: that patriotism has little emotional substance without mystic nationalism. ~Will Wilkinson [...]

By: Joe Blow

Joe Blow — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:39:02 +0000

Hey, nice pic Will. As a veteran, I need to tell you, thanks for pissing on my love of country as a bad or invalid motivator of the free choices I made. It reminds me that the First Amendment protects not only the members of my “tribe” who have bought into our national collaborative project of creating liberty and self-rule, and the costs that come with it, but that the Amendment also protects the bismotered little chap who runs around the village insists that those of us who protect him from various Huns, Vandals and Visigoths are just misguided fools. I feel a sense of luxury and success, knowing we've created a country, a national project, that can afford you a right to exist and do your thing. I thank you.

By: Big_Roy

Big_Roy — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:00:41 +0000

I don't know about that, have you spent any time in Canada. Canadians spend an awful lot of time talking about how great it is to be Canadian. I would argue there is more obsession on being Canadian in Canada than in the US in loving the US. Just think about the really crazed nationalism of Canadian content rules on Canadian radio.

Being Swedish I have to say Swedes are very particular about Sweden too, they are much more obsessive about being Swedish than you would believe.

An interesting point is both of these are very small countries in population that are realy over shadowed by other countries. They almost have to constantly think about what makes them unique as nations in order to survive.

The Chinese however pay a lot of lip service to the "Glory of China", but when it comes to their attachment to the country itself, I think they are such a self contained universe that they basically define the normative as being Chinese and in day to day life don't really think about being something else. Which is what Swedes and Canadians constantly do.

By: Cassandra

Cassandra — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 22:29:54 +0000

"The really perverse thing is that many people will do for their country what they would never do for their own mother."

If you think this, then you really are clueless. Next time, stick to a subject you know something about. And next time you get in a self righteous mood, photograph the coffin of someone in your own family.

The men (and possibly women) in those coffins volunteered to fight for reasons you'll never understand.

What a shame that you can't respect their sacrifice.

By: MattB

MattB — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:19:39 +0000

(flag covered coffin photo) = sacrifice. Honor it, do not wish for it to not exist.
Without it there would be no America.

By: MattB

MattB — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:17:39 +0000

(flag covered coffin photo) = sacrifice. Honor it, do not wish for it to not exist.
Without it there would be no America.

By: As We Sailed Into The Mystic « Around The Sphere

As We Sailed Into The Mystic « Around The Sphere — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:18:40 +0000

[...] Will Wilkinson: I strenuously disagree that a little mystic nationalism is “a good and healthy thing.” But I heartily agree with what I take Jonah to imply: that patriotism has little emotional substance without mystic nationalism. [...]

By: tdr

tdr — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:56:41 +0000

Isn't it a bit of a stretch to link dead soldiers to “a little bit of mystic nationalism”? Aren't dead soldiers more likely to be caused by an excess of mystic nationalism?

By: ljm

ljm — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 07:23:21 +0000

One doesn't have to be a libertarian or an isolationist to be against going to war against brutal dictators which pose no threat to the U.S., nor to oppose going to war under false pretenses. One only has to understand what war is well enough to believe that it should be an act of last resort.

If you think the U.S. should go to war to remove brutal dictators, then where do you propose we invade next? Cuba? Saudi Arabia? North Korea? Sudan? We could do it alphabetically. However we do, you can be sure such a philosophy guarantees the nightmare of perpetual war.

By: Arjuna

Arjuna — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 02:54:47 +0000

States are also states because they use violence to help solve collective action problems. I have often read speculations in print that the emotional bases of in-group loyalty evolved precisely because human social units faced collective action problems, and groups with greater amounts of in-group loyalty could much more easily handle those problems.

Whatever the truth of that hypothesis maybe, it seems that such sentiments are long standing feature of human existence, and that they do help to solve some collective action problems.

By: Morpheous

Morpheous — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:30:45 +0000

That's like saying Enforcing the Law = Dead Policemen. It may be true, but says nothing about the value of law. I will agree that a political order that sacrifices it's patriots to protect it's liberals is catastrophically ass-backwards. Is there some way of reversing that outcome?

By: A Food Fight on Thanksgiving | Republicans United.

A Food Fight on Thanksgiving | Republicans United. — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:28:10 +0000

[...] Will Wilkinson decides to reply rather forcefully to Goldberg’s use of the term “mystic nationalism;” [...]

By: pithlord

pithlord — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:37:55 +0000

I don't think you get the distinction quite right. Both nationalists and patriots could define their nation/patria as ethnic or not. The difference is that nationalism is an ideology and patriotism is a sentiment.

By: pithlord

pithlord — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:35:35 +0000

Freddie is denying that we should love what is not a product of accomplishment or choice. Parents and siblings are not a product of accomplishment or choice. Therefore, he is either denying the profound importance of loving parents or siblings or the profound importance of modus ponens.

Granting love, including love of country, does not justify complicity in horrible crimes, I thought you and Freddie were making a bigger cliam than that.

By: pithlord

pithlord — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:32:01 +0000

Fine, but that would only get you to “love of one's own is sometimes bad”, which no one's going to argue with.