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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Menaissance&#8221; and Its Dickscontents</title>
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	<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
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		<title>By: jamesvonderhaar</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-5/#comment-595118</link>
		<dc:creator>jamesvonderhaar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-595118</guid>
		<description>I wonder if the &quot;confusion&quot; you mention is a temporary pain while we sort out gender equality, or an enduring and positive contribution to human relations.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Much of the article you linked to can be summed up by, &quot;Oh no, women are free to be individuals, what are we to do!?&quot;  I sincerely hope that we never quite figure out what the rules of dating ought to be in an age of equality, because if we do, we&#039;ll be stifling diversity.  Instead of treating your partner as a representative of his or her class, you ought to treat him or her as an individual, with idiosyncratic wants and needs from a relationship.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Gender roles in relationships are a crutch for those with the emotional IQ of an adolescent.   If, in this brave new world of feminism, you have to *gasp* communicate with your partner and figure out what he or she wants, that&#039;s a good thing, not a bad thing, at least in my book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if the &#8220;confusion&#8221; you mention is a temporary pain while we sort out gender equality, or an enduring and positive contribution to human relations.</p>
<p>Much of the article you linked to can be summed up by, &#8220;Oh no, women are free to be individuals, what are we to do!?&#8221;  I sincerely hope that we never quite figure out what the rules of dating ought to be in an age of equality, because if we do, we&#39;ll be stifling diversity.  Instead of treating your partner as a representative of his or her class, you ought to treat him or her as an individual, with idiosyncratic wants and needs from a relationship.</p>
<p>Gender roles in relationships are a crutch for those with the emotional IQ of an adolescent.   If, in this brave new world of feminism, you have to *gasp* communicate with your partner and figure out what he or she wants, that&#39;s a good thing, not a bad thing, at least in my book.</p>
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		<title>By: The male angst theorem; or, male whorishness and its consequences : The Uncredible Hallq</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-5/#comment-594001</link>
		<dc:creator>The male angst theorem; or, male whorishness and its consequences : The Uncredible Hallq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-594001</guid>
		<description>[...] dating world. This is something that&#8217;s particularly come out in this Kay Hymowitz piece and various responses to it. And the consensus here seems to be some version of &#8220;changes in social conventions [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] dating world. This is something that&#8217;s particularly come out in this Kay Hymowitz piece and various responses to it. And the consensus here seems to be some version of &#8220;changes in social conventions [...]</p>
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		<title>By: asfdasd</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-5/#comment-593963</link>
		<dc:creator>asfdasd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593963</guid>
		<description>If you join a new religion you can&#039;t cheat on your wife all the time like Don Draper though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you join a new religion you can&#39;t cheat on your wife all the time like Don Draper though.</p>
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		<title>By: Maxine</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-5/#comment-593875</link>
		<dc:creator>Maxine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593875</guid>
		<description>Wow. As a woman with several male friends who all see m perfectly capable of finding decent women and having happy relationships without having to be total dicks OR servile chumps, I always wonder who these bitter men are who seem to be burdened with such terrible, oppressed lives.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In any case, I have always found that people who complain about the failings of the opposite sex invariably end up dating people who validate their low opinions. What can I say, good luck to you, hope you manage to find some happiness in your life regardless of being in a &quot;culture&quot; or &quot;system&quot; that actively works against you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. As a woman with several male friends who all see m perfectly capable of finding decent women and having happy relationships without having to be total dicks OR servile chumps, I always wonder who these bitter men are who seem to be burdened with such terrible, oppressed lives.</p>
<p>In any case, I have always found that people who complain about the failings of the opposite sex invariably end up dating people who validate their low opinions. What can I say, good luck to you, hope you manage to find some happiness in your life regardless of being in a &#8220;culture&#8221; or &#8220;system&#8221; that actively works against you.</p>
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		<title>By: lmk89</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-5/#comment-593874</link>
		<dc:creator>lmk89</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 21:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593874</guid>
		<description>The post ignores the biological differences between men and women, which account for most of the &quot;traditional&quot; roles alotted to the two sexes.  Will accepts the false premise of feminism: that gender inequality in many parts of society is the result of discrimination and &quot;cultural norms.&quot;  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is false.  Have you ever wondered why almost every society preceding the 20th century west had patriarchal qualities?  Why they all seem to have similar &quot;cultural norms&quot;?  The fact is that the presence or absence of a uterus affects much more than just the biophysics of reproduction.  It permeates both mind and body.  I&#039;m not saying this is good.  I&#039;m just saying that&#039;s the way it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The post ignores the biological differences between men and women, which account for most of the &#8220;traditional&#8221; roles alotted to the two sexes.  Will accepts the false premise of feminism: that gender inequality in many parts of society is the result of discrimination and &#8220;cultural norms.&#8221;  </p>
<p>This is false.  Have you ever wondered why almost every society preceding the 20th century west had patriarchal qualities?  Why they all seem to have similar &#8220;cultural norms&#8221;?  The fact is that the presence or absence of a uterus affects much more than just the biophysics of reproduction.  It permeates both mind and body.  I&#39;m not saying this is good.  I&#39;m just saying that&#39;s the way it is.</p>
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		<title>By: From Will Wilkinson-A Response To Kay Hymowitz: &#8216;The “Menaissance” and Its Dickscontents&#8217; &#171; Chris Navin</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-4/#comment-593818</link>
		<dc:creator>From Will Wilkinson-A Response To Kay Hymowitz: &#8216;The “Menaissance” and Its Dickscontents&#8217; &#171; Chris Navin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 01:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593818</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8212; chr1 @ 7:28 am Tags: Feminism, Kay Hymowitz, Libertarianism, Love In The Time Of Darwinism  Full post here. (Wilkinson responds to Hymowitz&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8212; chr1 @ 7:28 am Tags: Feminism, Kay Hymowitz, Libertarianism, Love In The Time Of Darwinism  Full post here. (Wilkinson responds to Hymowitz&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dad</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-4/#comment-593729</link>
		<dc:creator>Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593729</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not the price alone that counts, it&#039;s a question of value!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#39;s not the price alone that counts, it&#39;s a question of value!</p>
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		<title>By: Dad</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-4/#comment-593728</link>
		<dc:creator>Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593728</guid>
		<description>And are they affordable? It&#039;s good for the soul, getting years and years of wear out of a pair of well-chosen shoes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And are they affordable? It&#39;s good for the soul, getting years and years of wear out of a pair of well-chosen shoes.</p>
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		<title>By: Tarquin</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-4/#comment-593727</link>
		<dc:creator>Tarquin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593727</guid>
		<description>Interesting! Can you please name those forms of life, several primate species, and non-Western cultures? Or perhaps a paper or something about them? Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting! Can you please name those forms of life, several primate species, and non-Western cultures? Or perhaps a paper or something about them? Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Stop Caring What Others Think and Become More Self Confident - The Blog Planet</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-4/#comment-593618</link>
		<dc:creator>Stop Caring What Others Think and Become More Self Confident - The Blog Planet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593618</guid>
		<description>[...] The “Menaissance” and Its Dickscontents [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The “Menaissance” and Its Dickscontents [...]</p>
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		<title>By: fledermaus23</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-4/#comment-593572</link>
		<dc:creator>fledermaus23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593572</guid>
		<description>Hear hear, andy!  Plus a lot of the complaints from the crowd Will talks about stike me as totally overblown whinging. Has anyone in the history of the feminist movement totally ended a relationship because some man did or did not open a door?  If that happened to me, i&#039;d really consider whether such a person is worth having a relationship with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hear hear, andy!  Plus a lot of the complaints from the crowd Will talks about stike me as totally overblown whinging. Has anyone in the history of the feminist movement totally ended a relationship because some man did or did not open a door?  If that happened to me, i&#39;d really consider whether such a person is worth having a relationship with.</p>
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		<title>By: eibhear</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-4/#comment-593532</link>
		<dc:creator>eibhear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 19:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593532</guid>
		<description>uknowbetter, If I were you, I&#039;d stop digging, mate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>uknowbetter, If I were you, I&#39;d stop digging, mate.</p>
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		<title>By: iq159</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-4/#comment-593522</link>
		<dc:creator>iq159</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593522</guid>
		<description>‘Well, thanks for the extensive response to things I didn&#039;t say. I don&#039;t give a shit about Teh Patriarchy, thanks. Never been able to figure out what the hell it is. “ - Simon&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Wow. I didn’t know grown men played coy. How many posts have you had on here? You know damn well know you’ve had plenty of discussions about “Patriarchy”.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;“That to one side, I also don&#039;t understand where this became a matter of &quot;bad female dating behaviour&quot;. Women want different things. The same woman might want different things at different times. How is this bad behaviour? How is it any different from men? I&#039;m not denying that women sometimes behave badly on dates. Men do too. Hell, I&#039;m sure I have. So what? Women. Are. People. Do you get it yet?” -Simon&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Dude when are you gonna stop hiding behind the “women are people” shield?&lt;br&gt;Women aren’t entitled to corner offices, and promotions either Simon. So when that small business owner decides to pick a HIM over a HER, It’s because the owner wants different things. It’s just ordinary human inconsistency. That man got the raise and she didn’t because sometimes men behave badly. There were only 2 candidates. It wasn’t gender. It was odds. And it’s nothing SHE should be frustrated about. She wants something from a man. Right? Men are people! Remember? There’s nothing wrong here.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No Simon, that is a specific story of entitlement; it is not about “choice” and “individuality”. You do not perceive the entitlement that women have in dating because you are a bigot. But it is there. As I accused before, I don’t think you feel women have any entitlements. Try to name one female entitlement off the top of your head. You can’t… Can you? Because you think there are none and you are wrong!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;“Let me break it down for you, since you didn&#039;t get my little hint: Everything you&#039;ve written says that all the power in the your relationships is with the woman, or at least that&#039;s how you look at it. But here&#039;s the rub - that&#039;s nothing to do with the woman. That&#039;s you. You&#039;re walking into an interaction (date) knowing you want something (pussy) and prepared to do pretty much whatever it takes to get it (pay, not pay, crawl on the floor, whine incessantly). Since you apparently work in sales or customer service, you should be able to see the problem here - you want something, and at least in your mind, she doesn&#039;t care. “ - Simon&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No Simon,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Power in my relationship depends on the area and the woman. I have never dated Gina Carrano, so I have always been the more physically powerful. When I was in college I dated a trust fund girl, so she was the economically more powerful. Later on I dated a PHD student, but I have a BS from a top 5 private University so maybe educationally that was a push. Currently, I am the more economically powerful one in the relationship, but she is the more socially powerful. I am an extreme extrovert, but she still tops me.&lt;br&gt;Do you even have a coherent definition of power? Because I don’t think you do.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;“In case you still don&#039;t let me break it down further. Since you pretty much gave yourself away here the minute you put finger to keyboard, you probably do the same when out on a date too. Most women object to being considered as ambulatory vaginae with inconvenient extra body parts attached. The fact you&#039;re prepared to sleep with them pretty much regardless of what they do isn&#039;t a complement - it makes it clear you not only have no interest in her, but no respect for yourself. About the only women who aren&#039;t going to run a mile are manipulators who&#039;ll use you for whatever they want and then move on. That probably just reinforces you perception of ordinary human incosistency as &quot;bad female dating behaviour&quot;, since I don&#039;t doubt you see a lot of the real thing.” - Simon&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No Simon,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You don’t need to date sea horses to explain their courtship rituals. Observation is a powerful tool. You should try using it more. And while I can “date” with the best of them (I am good in most any social setting) I tend to prefer women whose idea of a “date” is just hanging out. If my perception is tainted by anything its spending time with women whose idea of dating was unconventional.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;MOST men once considered “Marrying” to mean a gal to clean and cook for you. Eventually most folks figured out there was a problem with that expectation.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;MOST women currently consider “Dating” to mean a guy asking her out, picking her up and taking her somewhere... eventually folks will figure out there is a problem with that expectation… even folks like you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>‘Well, thanks for the extensive response to things I didn&#39;t say. I don&#39;t give a shit about Teh Patriarchy, thanks. Never been able to figure out what the hell it is. “ &#8211; Simon</p>
<p>Wow. I didn’t know grown men played coy. How many posts have you had on here? You know damn well know you’ve had plenty of discussions about “Patriarchy”.</p>
<p>“That to one side, I also don&#39;t understand where this became a matter of &#8220;bad female dating behaviour&#8221;. Women want different things. The same woman might want different things at different times. How is this bad behaviour? How is it any different from men? I&#39;m not denying that women sometimes behave badly on dates. Men do too. Hell, I&#39;m sure I have. So what? Women. Are. People. Do you get it yet?” -Simon</p>
<p>Dude when are you gonna stop hiding behind the “women are people” shield?<br />Women aren’t entitled to corner offices, and promotions either Simon. So when that small business owner decides to pick a HIM over a HER, It’s because the owner wants different things. It’s just ordinary human inconsistency. That man got the raise and she didn’t because sometimes men behave badly. There were only 2 candidates. It wasn’t gender. It was odds. And it’s nothing SHE should be frustrated about. She wants something from a man. Right? Men are people! Remember? There’s nothing wrong here.</p>
<p>No Simon, that is a specific story of entitlement; it is not about “choice” and “individuality”. You do not perceive the entitlement that women have in dating because you are a bigot. But it is there. As I accused before, I don’t think you feel women have any entitlements. Try to name one female entitlement off the top of your head. You can’t… Can you? Because you think there are none and you are wrong!</p>
<p>“Let me break it down for you, since you didn&#39;t get my little hint: Everything you&#39;ve written says that all the power in the your relationships is with the woman, or at least that&#39;s how you look at it. But here&#39;s the rub &#8211; that&#39;s nothing to do with the woman. That&#39;s you. You&#39;re walking into an interaction (date) knowing you want something (pussy) and prepared to do pretty much whatever it takes to get it (pay, not pay, crawl on the floor, whine incessantly). Since you apparently work in sales or customer service, you should be able to see the problem here &#8211; you want something, and at least in your mind, she doesn&#39;t care. “ &#8211; Simon</p>
<p>No Simon,</p>
<p>Power in my relationship depends on the area and the woman. I have never dated Gina Carrano, so I have always been the more physically powerful. When I was in college I dated a trust fund girl, so she was the economically more powerful. Later on I dated a PHD student, but I have a BS from a top 5 private University so maybe educationally that was a push. Currently, I am the more economically powerful one in the relationship, but she is the more socially powerful. I am an extreme extrovert, but she still tops me.<br />Do you even have a coherent definition of power? Because I don’t think you do.</p>
<p>“In case you still don&#39;t let me break it down further. Since you pretty much gave yourself away here the minute you put finger to keyboard, you probably do the same when out on a date too. Most women object to being considered as ambulatory vaginae with inconvenient extra body parts attached. The fact you&#39;re prepared to sleep with them pretty much regardless of what they do isn&#39;t a complement &#8211; it makes it clear you not only have no interest in her, but no respect for yourself. About the only women who aren&#39;t going to run a mile are manipulators who&#39;ll use you for whatever they want and then move on. That probably just reinforces you perception of ordinary human incosistency as &#8220;bad female dating behaviour&#8221;, since I don&#39;t doubt you see a lot of the real thing.” &#8211; Simon</p>
<p>No Simon,</p>
<p>You don’t need to date sea horses to explain their courtship rituals. Observation is a powerful tool. You should try using it more. And while I can “date” with the best of them (I am good in most any social setting) I tend to prefer women whose idea of a “date” is just hanging out. If my perception is tainted by anything its spending time with women whose idea of dating was unconventional.</p>
<p>MOST men once considered “Marrying” to mean a gal to clean and cook for you. Eventually most folks figured out there was a problem with that expectation.</p>
<p>MOST women currently consider “Dating” to mean a guy asking her out, picking her up and taking her somewhere&#8230; eventually folks will figure out there is a problem with that expectation… even folks like you.</p>
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		<title>By: uknowbetter</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-4/#comment-593518</link>
		<dc:creator>uknowbetter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593518</guid>
		<description>Actually sounds like I touched a nerve.  And most &#039;privileged&#039; people I know are Leftists. Those that had to work for what they have tend to be more in favor of free-markets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually sounds like I touched a nerve.  And most &#39;privileged&#39; people I know are Leftists. Those that had to work for what they have tend to be more in favor of free-markets.</p>
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		<title>By: simonkinahan</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/08/28/the-menaissance-and-its-dickscontents/comment-page-4/#comment-593517</link>
		<dc:creator>simonkinahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3697#comment-593517</guid>
		<description>Name calling? Seems like a perfectly accurate observation to me. Touch a nerve did I? Its frustrating, frankly. Libertarianism generally doesn&#039;t suck. But the overpriveleged teenagers who smoke pot don&#039;t give it a good name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Name calling? Seems like a perfectly accurate observation to me. Touch a nerve did I? Its frustrating, frankly. Libertarianism generally doesn&#39;t suck. But the overpriveleged teenagers who smoke pot don&#39;t give it a good name.</p>
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