Comments on: Arnold Kling on Freedom as Exit

By: The Framework is Libertarian, But Any Community Within It Need Not Be « Let A Thousand Nations Bloom

Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:14:34 +0000

[...] an efficient market for public goods. Unfortunately, not everyone values exit this highly. Some define freedom by voice. Others, like Patrick Deneen, want to tighten the screws on entrapment: This, in a microcosm, is a [...]

By: If You Build It, They Will Change Their Undemocratic, Illiberal Ways « Around The Sphere

Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:40:20 +0000

[...] Will Wilkinson [...]

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By: Exit, Voice, and Real Freedom, Again |

Exit, Voice, and Real Freedom, Again | — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:21:43 +0000

[...] Voice, and Real Freedom, Again My impassioned post draws a response from Will Wilkinson that is self-refuting. He writes, I’ve noticed that Arnold complains a lot about Montgomery [...]

By: timworstall

timworstall — Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:47:43 +0000

"What’s more, the U.S. won’t keep him from leaving, and there are many other political jurisdictions that would receive him."

Worth noting how difficult it actually is to exit the US polity.

For everyone else, simply leave the country. Tax, for example, is paid on your country of residence.

Not for a US citizen. You pay Uncle Sam wherever your residence is in the world. If the local polity charges you less than U Sam you pony up the difference to Wash DC.

Actualy getting rid of your citizenship is possible but not wasy. The IRS is likely to demand all the tax you would have paid in the next decade as the price of letting you go.

McMegan did a good piece on all this some time ago. But getting out of the US polity is more difficult than getting out of just about any other.

Even Cuba doesn't try to tax you if you do make it to Miami Beach.

By: ryan yin

ryan yin — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:26:55 +0000

That last bit isn't 100% true: when you tax carbon (or use permits), you raise the price of consumption, which means you're effectively lowering the return to labor, which is already distorted anyway. I guess this isn't a “new” inefficiency, in that we already have income taxes, but that kind of seems like splitting hairs to me; we would be creating more inefficiency, not just passing up the opportunity to reduce them.

By: TGGP

TGGP — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:18:40 +0000

Even in that case I'm not so sure. Greg Mankiw takes seriously (but did not reply to) Steve Landsburg's critique of his position. If your main concern is carbon emissions, it doesn't matter that permits weren't sold. Even the way Mankiw phrases it in his "wonky" post isn't about creating new inefficiencies, but passing up an opportunity to rectify one of the existing ones.

By: patrissimo

patrissimo — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:50:54 +0000

Yes, that's the place.

I don't agree. Consider the policy of carbon taxes, as implemented in Waxman-Markey. I would say that the problem is the thousand plus pages of exceptions and corporate pork making up the majority of the bill, as opposed to the broad policy of taxing emissions – which most economists support.

In general, bad policies applied evenly and consistently seem likely to me to be more efficient. A lot of the rent extraction happens in the details.

By: uknowbetter

uknowbetter — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:03:18 +0000

I do think it's hypocritical for those who advocate socialist policies in the US to scoff at moving to another country that's more in-line with their socialist wishes.

Those in the US who want less socialism don't have those same choices.

By: TGGP

TGGP — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:43:32 +0000

Searching your site, I see you making something like that point here, but from my view the details just determine which lobby receives rents, the broad policy determines inefficient rent extraction in the first place, so that causes the real harm.

By: TGGP

TGGP — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:38:28 +0000

I guess I haven't been paying due diligence to the ATN site. Could you link to a post where you elaborate on that point?

By: patrissimo

patrissimo — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:59:18 +0000

As I've posted on ATN, I think much of the harm is not from the broad bad policies, but from the details of the policy implementations. And those are definitely written by lobbyists, not We The People.

By: TGGP

TGGP — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:43:38 +0000

That's old public choice. Bryan Caplan's revised take is that is that rent-seeking lobbyists aren't to blame, We the People are. Bad policies are popular.

By: griffin13

griffin13 — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:47:42 +0000

Spurious argument here, Will:

"I’ve noticed that Arnold complains a lot about Montgomery Country, MD, but as far as I know hasn’t moved. What’s more, the U.S. won’t keep him from leaving, and there are many other political jurisdictions that would receive him."

There are other factors besides political preference that determine a person's choice of where to live. I first encountered this argument by a guy who was criticizing David Friedman's anarchist views because Friedman lives in California. The guy argued that this undermined Friedman's positions. But Friedman lives there because he works at UCSD, not because he prefers Californian policy.

My own simple analogy: you go out to a bar and the music is way too loud and the drinks are overpriced. You're there because your romantic interest invited you there. Are you a hypocrite if you say how much better the bar would be if it played better music and charged reasonable prices?

By: Exit, Voice, and Liberty « Brad Taylor’s Blog

Exit, Voice, and Liberty « Brad Taylor’s Blog — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:15:14 +0000

[...] Patri Friedman expand upon Arnold’s argument at A Thousand Nations; Wilkinson responds to Arnold here. All of these posts, including the comments, are well worth reading. I’m with Arnold and the [...]