Comments on: The Poor but Unusually Chipper and Long-Lived Index

By: huang

huang — Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:56:34 +0000

cardy ugg boots On sale,Find newest Ugg Collection there.

cardy uggs Special sale,Order now,Save 38% immediately

cardy uggs boots This season hit the store,Only $99

Would you like a pair of classic short ugg home,make this winter warm,let you feet keep comfort every day.

Newest classic short uggs is in stock now,Save more off,Win lucky coupon code.

women's bailey button UGG this season hottest Short style UGG Boots,you should never miss it.

Bailey Button UGGs keep your feet amazing comfort,Special sale time is limited this week,Order now

UGGs Bailey Button Boots can't find?You can go our shop,Will save more 25%.

UGG Bailey Button Sale Come in stock,win more discount now.

Chestnut Bailey Button Boot this season hottest Ugg boots,every one is talk about that,Take them home now.

bailey button leopard Ugg boots let the fashion on your feet now,A pair of this will give you all.

Leopard Uggs New version of Ugg Bailey Button hit the store

UGG Australia Highkoo 2009-2010 this winter a new rasie trendy along with bailey button button.

UGG Women's Highkoo Will the best gift for christmas,for your girlfriend,your family member

UGG Grey Women's Highkoo keep rising,don's miss this opportunity to get them home with cheapest price you never imagin.

By: huang

huang — Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:56:21 +0000

cardy ugg boots On sale,Find newest Ugg Collection there.

cardy uggs Special sale,Order now,Save 38% immediately

cardy uggs boots This season hit the store,Only $99

Would you like a pair of classic short ugg home,make this winter warm,let you feet keep comfort every day.

Newest classic short uggs is in stock now,Save more off,Win lucky coupon code.

UGGs Bailey Button Boots can't find?You can go our shop,Will save more 25%.

UGG Bailey Button Sale Come in stock,win more discount now.

Chestnut Bailey Button Boot this season hottest Ugg boots,every one is talk about that,Take them home now.

bailey button leopard Ugg boots let the fashion on your feet now,A pair of this will give you all.

Leopard Uggs New version of Ugg Bailey Button hit the store

UGG Australia Highkoo 2009-2010 this winter a new rasie trendy along with bailey button button.

UGG Women's Highkoo Will the best gift for christmas,for your girlfriend,your family member

UGG Grey Women's Highkoo keep rising,don's miss this opportunity to get them home with cheapest price you never imagin.

By: Lorenzo (from downunder)

Lorenzo (from downunder) — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:21:16 +0000

People flows: if people move from “high” index countries to “low” index countries, as clearly they do (or would if they could) that is a revealed preference which states that the index is not even close to measuring what people care about.

By: Oh kui õnnetu Eesti ehk pseudoteaduslik ajupesu « süütud kõrvalseisjad

Oh kui õnnetu Eesti ehk pseudoteaduslik ajupesu « süütud kõrvalseisjad — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:14:53 +0000

[...] kuri on selle indeksi peale aga Will Wilkinson. Wilkinsonil on personaalne kana kitkuda, ta on ise tegelenud aastaid õnne ja majandusarengu [...]

By: Tim Worstall

Tim Worstall — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:11:22 +0000

It's much worse than you make out Will. Much worse. For example, the over-riding factor in the ecological footprint thing is CO2 emmissions: I think we're all fairly clear that there is indeed something of a problem here? Of all the other resources there ain't.

Still, I would say that this report is an improvement on the last one. Last time the top was Vanuatu: thus the solution to a happy ecologically pure life was wearning penis sheaths and worshipping the Duke of Edinburgh as a Living God (that latter possibly having merit).

This time around they've noted that living in a tropical, Iberian influenced country does the business. That is, that it helps to have a siesta.

Hey, I'll go with that as a the secret to the good life......

By: Derek Wall

Derek Wall — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:55:49 +0000

It is important to look at ecological problems and GDP (and similar measures) can be quite crude, however the happy planet index doesn't do the job. Asking people how satisfied they are is too subjective for a start.

I particularly unhappy at the high score for Colombia, where death squads continue to kick peasants from their land, so that biofuels can be grown to power vehicles in the EU and US.

By: Costa Rica: the happiest country in…. Kuwait not a happy place :(…. | Total Info

Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:20:49 +0000

[...] http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/06/the-poor-but-unusually-chipper-and-long-lived-index/ [...]

By: Craig

Craig — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:45:44 +0000

Rich people should be able to pay poor people for the right to use their CO2 allowances. Doing this makes both rich countries and poor countries happier but in their index it makes poor countries happier and rich countries sadder. Then if a poor country gets wealthy and stops selling its allowances to rich countires then it becomes less happy while other rich countries get more happy. This makes no sense. We should try to maximizing total happiness with no ecological adjustment. I happen to think that a global CO2 market would increase happiness or at least increase utility because the planet is a valuable asset and its worth something while current CO2 prices suggest its worth nothing..

By: Will Wilkinson

Will Wilkinson — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:16:57 +0000

This is a great point. There's a lot that's arbitrary about the index, but leaving out rates of reproduction is very arbitrary. It seems that a country should gain points for a sub-replacement rate of reproduction and lose points for a super-replacement rate. However, birthrates tend to drop with economic growth. And NEF wouldn't want to send mixed messages about growth.

By: ryan yin

ryan yin — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:45:07 +0000

I think that's too short an answer. Why would you think this goal should be the objective. I mean, just for starters, it's not Pareto efficient. I'm not saying you have to be a pure Paretian, but explaining why we ought to follow any particular rule that violates Pareto is a pretty high hurdle, even in the best of circumstances. And the no-envy principle isn't in that position: it's got time issues (can people born in different times envy you? what about people whose lives only partially overlap yours?) and people advocating that position clearly don't seem to really mean it (unless they mean it only applies within national borders, which is problematic too). So I think a huge effort at defense is needed here.

By: Jason Kuznicki

Jason Kuznicki — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:43:06 +0000

"No envy basically just says, that you wouldn't rather trade your starting position with anyone else. All differences in income are matters of choice."

This is not what the real-world experience of envy is necessarily about. I suspect that even if resources were allocated with precise equality, and even if that equality could somehow be maintained over time, envy would still run rampant: We'd still want to own other people's stuff, and just add it to our own.

A "no envy" rule of this sort (with which I was not previously familiar) would seem to require either a change in the definition of the word envy, or in human nature itself.

By: Karl Smith

Karl Smith — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:16:19 +0000

Well the short answer is that someone might prefer to live in poverty rather than to do what is necessary to live in luxury. In many cases perhaps not but we cannot be sure.

No envy basically just says, that you wouldn't rather trade your starting position with anyone else. All differences in income are matters of choice.

By: Will Wilkinson

Will Wilkinson — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:57:40 +0000

I just thought of a better name for this: the Least Miserable Green Index

By: Jason Kuznicki

Jason Kuznicki — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 12:43:16 +0000

A good question. Why is envy the minimand? Why not some other socially undesirable trait, like poverty? (And might envy, taken as a minimand, actually decrease in a situation where entitlements are high but unequal?)

By: Brian Moore

Brian Moore — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 12:38:02 +0000

While I agree Costa Rica is a really nice place filled with relatively happy people, you're definitely right that the index itself is pretty crazy. The CNN article especially unintentionally reveals that it's pretty much just an ecological index + a little bit of a happiness modifier added to it. Why are these two factors charted together? No idea. I think it's basically just a list of “how much the NEF likes each country” that they tried to come up with some actual reason to justify — but didn't try real hard.