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	<title>Comments on: The Incoherent Obama</title>
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	<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587881</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 04:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587881</guid>
		<description>Government stupidity got us into this trouble by inflating housing prices and now the answer (of course!) is more government stupidity.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Obama is just digging a deeper grave that he wants us to all willingly jump into.  No thanks.  You and all the other kool-aid drinkers are welcome to jump in of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Government stupidity got us into this trouble by inflating housing prices and now the answer (of course!) is more government stupidity.</p>
<p>Obama is just digging a deeper grave that he wants us to all willingly jump into.  No thanks.  You and all the other kool-aid drinkers are welcome to jump in of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587804</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587804</guid>
		<description>It all depends on how seriously you take the notion that the Constitution was intended to establish a government of enumerated powers for the benefit of a people with unenumerated rights.  I see the 9th and 10th amendment as clearly saying that unless the power the federal government wishes to exercise is authorized in the Constitution, it cannot legally proceed.  I can&#039;t find a provision that sanctions the use of tax revenues to fund scientific research.  This is the closest thing I could find &quot;The Congress shall have Power...To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries&quot; but I don&#039;t see how that authorizes anything other than the granting of copyrights and patents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It all depends on how seriously you take the notion that the Constitution was intended to establish a government of enumerated powers for the benefit of a people with unenumerated rights.  I see the 9th and 10th amendment as clearly saying that unless the power the federal government wishes to exercise is authorized in the Constitution, it cannot legally proceed.  I can&#39;t find a provision that sanctions the use of tax revenues to fund scientific research.  This is the closest thing I could find &#8220;The Congress shall have Power&#8230;To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries&#8221; but I don&#39;t see how that authorizes anything other than the granting of copyrights and patents.</p>
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		<title>By: erutan</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587800</link>
		<dc:creator>erutan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587800</guid>
		<description>It would depend on whether the increase in taxes was enough to cause companies to flee the country, or just rethink the degree of outsourcing.  There&#039;s a difference on taxing profits made in other countries and &quot;ending the tax breaks for corporations that ship our jobs overseas&quot; imo.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m a bit baffled how this (or havng government sponsored R&amp;D) is a raw use unconstitutional power...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would depend on whether the increase in taxes was enough to cause companies to flee the country, or just rethink the degree of outsourcing.  There&#39;s a difference on taxing profits made in other countries and &#8220;ending the tax breaks for corporations that ship our jobs overseas&#8221; imo.</p>
<p>I&#39;m a bit baffled how this (or havng government sponsored R&#038;D) is a raw use unconstitutional power&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587796</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 21:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587796</guid>
		<description>I get it.  You don&#039;t like the new president.  Reading your blog, I get the impression that you don&#039;t like much of anything.  You live in a world where all decisions can be Monday-morning quarterbacked.  Here in the tactile world someone has to clean up the mess left by a generation of bubble-economics so that knuckleheads like you can spend your days banging on a keyboard.  If you don&#039;t like it, then run for office yourself.  Knob.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get it.  You don&#39;t like the new president.  Reading your blog, I get the impression that you don&#39;t like much of anything.  You live in a world where all decisions can be Monday-morning quarterbacked.  Here in the tactile world someone has to clean up the mess left by a generation of bubble-economics so that knuckleheads like you can spend your days banging on a keyboard.  If you don&#39;t like it, then run for office yourself.  Knob.</p>
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		<title>By: Vangel</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587793</link>
		<dc:creator>Vangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587793</guid>
		<description>The incoherence is obviously based on goals that cannot stand the scrutiny of real world economics.  People do not behave as Obama and the Democrats (or Republicans for that matter) want them to and as long as they ignore human nature the confusion and contradictions will be visible for all objective observers to see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The incoherence is obviously based on goals that cannot stand the scrutiny of real world economics.  People do not behave as Obama and the Democrats (or Republicans for that matter) want them to and as long as they ignore human nature the confusion and contradictions will be visible for all objective observers to see.</p>
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		<title>By: mk</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587789</link>
		<dc:creator>mk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587789</guid>
		<description>Let me make that clearer. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What is the point of saying &quot;if ((something that won&#039;t happen)), we end up in the lake&quot;? If it won&#039;t happen why mention it?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well, he&#039;s trying to persuade us to make sure it doesn&#039;t happen. In other words, he believes we don&#039;t yet agree with him.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But he is also predicting that we will agree with him. He&#039;s figured everything out for us! He understands our perspective better than we do, and knows that once we consider his arguments we will be convinced! &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In other words &quot;This is the right thing. I know you&#039;ll do the right thing.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Does this strike anyone else as smarmy and presumptuous?&lt;br&gt;Not that that&#039;s anything new. Bush was significantly worse of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me make that clearer. </p>
<p>What is the point of saying &#8220;if ((something that won&#39;t happen)), we end up in the lake&#8221;? If it won&#39;t happen why mention it?</p>
<p>Well, he&#39;s trying to persuade us to make sure it doesn&#39;t happen. In other words, he believes we don&#39;t yet agree with him.</p>
<p>But he is also predicting that we will agree with him. He&#39;s figured everything out for us! He understands our perspective better than we do, and knows that once we consider his arguments we will be convinced! </p>
<p>In other words &#8220;This is the right thing. I know you&#39;ll do the right thing.&#8221;</p>
<p>Does this strike anyone else as smarmy and presumptuous?<br />Not that that&#39;s anything new. Bush was significantly worse of course.</p>
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		<title>By: mk</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587787</link>
		<dc:creator>mk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587787</guid>
		<description>It was a good comment, but there is a sleight of hand here:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We will go to the beach (if [and only if] we do what I think we should do)&lt;br&gt;We will end up in the lake if we don&#039;t do what I think we should do.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Obama removes the antecedent of the first statement. In order for the abridged statement to remain true, the antecedent must be true.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Therefore, Obama is implicitly saying &quot;We will do what I think we should do.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Maybe that&#039;s true, but you have to admit it&#039;s kind of an odd thing to say, even implicitly. Unless you&#039;re a politician and you want to get credit for being optimistic and still scare people into action!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was a good comment, but there is a sleight of hand here:</p>
<p>We will go to the beach (if [and only if] we do what I think we should do)<br />We will end up in the lake if we don&#39;t do what I think we should do.</p>
<p>Obama removes the antecedent of the first statement. In order for the abridged statement to remain true, the antecedent must be true.</p>
<p>Therefore, Obama is implicitly saying &#8220;We will do what I think we should do.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe that&#39;s true, but you have to admit it&#39;s kind of an odd thing to say, even implicitly. Unless you&#39;re a politician and you want to get credit for being optimistic and still scare people into action!</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587784</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587784</guid>
		<description>Yeah, my next post, which I think preceded Paul&#039;s comment, was a grudging recognition of the thrust of Paul&#039;s point. Ah, blogging.  Sometimes one feels so vulnerable. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I was in fact projecting too much of my opinion of the viability of Obama&#039;s proposed route, which is why he sounded to me like he was saying that if we keep going this way, we&#039;ll end up in the lake, and so we&#039;d better go straight into the lake, which is after all the quickest route to the beach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, my next post, which I think preceded Paul&#39;s comment, was a grudging recognition of the thrust of Paul&#39;s point. Ah, blogging.  Sometimes one feels so vulnerable. </p>
<p>I was in fact projecting too much of my opinion of the viability of Obama&#39;s proposed route, which is why he sounded to me like he was saying that if we keep going this way, we&#39;ll end up in the lake, and so we&#39;d better go straight into the lake, which is after all the quickest route to the beach.</p>
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		<title>By: midge</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587783</link>
		<dc:creator>midge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587783</guid>
		<description>i agree.  well done, paul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i agree.  well done, paul.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Drake</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587781</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Drake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587781</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m surprised the thread continued beyond this comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m surprised the thread continued beyond this comment.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587780</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587780</guid>
		<description>Boy this is lame.  You are criticizing a need for action.  The only way for Obama to be confident by your lights is for everything to be already perfect.  You are saying that &quot;I am confident in America, because there is nothing left to do&quot; would be the only acceptable, non-&quot;contradictory&quot; argument.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Was that, say, Reagan&#039;s logic ... that one month into his Presidency all work was done, everything was perfect, and for that reason he could express confidence?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Or was it because he was confident in a path, with work to do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy this is lame.  You are criticizing a need for action.  The only way for Obama to be confident by your lights is for everything to be already perfect.  You are saying that &#8220;I am confident in America, because there is nothing left to do&#8221; would be the only acceptable, non-&#8221;contradictory&#8221; argument.</p>
<p>Was that, say, Reagan&#39;s logic &#8230; that one month into his Presidency all work was done, everything was perfect, and for that reason he could express confidence?</p>
<p>Or was it because he was confident in a path, with work to do?</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587779</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587779</guid>
		<description>I guess this is the logician in me speaking, but when I hear &quot;you will not see your taxes increased a single dime&quot; followed by a pledge to increase taxes, that sounds an awful lot like a contradiction to me.  From a more literal perspective, it could be true that a family might not &quot;see&quot; a new line item on their sales receipts allocating a portion of the total cost to a new carbon tax, but that doesn&#039;t mean that the price increase hasn&#039;t occurred.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Furthermore, if you think he&#039;ll be able to avoid raising the bracket rates below $250,000 and keep his pledge to cut the deficit in half, you&#039;ll have to show me where the $700+ billion in spending cuts are going to come from, because he&#039;s not going to get all that money by raising rates on the top 2% of earners.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Finally, isn&#039;t the purpose of paying anyone anything to entice them to perform some action that you deem beneficial?  If Obama is saying that he&#039;s not going to be distributing money to people he likes just because he likes them, then ok, well, he&#039;s telling us he&#039;s not totally corrupt which is good to hear; however, if government money does continue to flow into Wall Street and the President goes on national television to respond to public protest, I doubt many people will be satisfied by the explanation that the bonuses aren&#039;t meant to &quot;reward&quot; the bankers, but rather to &quot;help&quot; all of us.  If, on the other hand, he is saying what I think most people heard, which is that banking executives are going to be treated like government bureaucrats in which their salary is more of a stipend than payment for a job well done, then I think such actions are again logically incompatible with the goal of &quot;keeping the economy stable.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess this is the logician in me speaking, but when I hear &#8220;you will not see your taxes increased a single dime&#8221; followed by a pledge to increase taxes, that sounds an awful lot like a contradiction to me.  From a more literal perspective, it could be true that a family might not &#8220;see&#8221; a new line item on their sales receipts allocating a portion of the total cost to a new carbon tax, but that doesn&#39;t mean that the price increase hasn&#39;t occurred.  </p>
<p>Furthermore, if you think he&#39;ll be able to avoid raising the bracket rates below $250,000 and keep his pledge to cut the deficit in half, you&#39;ll have to show me where the $700+ billion in spending cuts are going to come from, because he&#39;s not going to get all that money by raising rates on the top 2% of earners.</p>
<p>Finally, isn&#39;t the purpose of paying anyone anything to entice them to perform some action that you deem beneficial?  If Obama is saying that he&#39;s not going to be distributing money to people he likes just because he likes them, then ok, well, he&#39;s telling us he&#39;s not totally corrupt which is good to hear; however, if government money does continue to flow into Wall Street and the President goes on national television to respond to public protest, I doubt many people will be satisfied by the explanation that the bonuses aren&#39;t meant to &#8220;reward&#8221; the bankers, but rather to &#8220;help&#8221; all of us.  If, on the other hand, he is saying what I think most people heard, which is that banking executives are going to be treated like government bureaucrats in which their salary is more of a stipend than payment for a job well done, then I think such actions are again logically incompatible with the goal of &#8220;keeping the economy stable.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587778</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587778</guid>
		<description>I agree that there is an element of sensationalism in both Matt&#039;s column and Will&#039;s response, but I don&#039;t think they are wrong about the incompatibility of Obama&#039;s goals and his announced methods.  In particular, if Obama plans to more aggressively pursue the application of federal taxes to income earned in foreign countries by American-based corporations that has not been repatriated, he will provide greater incentives for American corporations to relocate to a more hospitable base country.  He will not raise as much money as static projections would predict, and he will cause productive activity to fall worldwide.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As for money being acquired under threat of force, I was referring to taxation in general.  There is a box for voluntary donations to the government on your tax return.  It doesn&#039;t raise much money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that there is an element of sensationalism in both Matt&#39;s column and Will&#39;s response, but I don&#39;t think they are wrong about the incompatibility of Obama&#39;s goals and his announced methods.  In particular, if Obama plans to more aggressively pursue the application of federal taxes to income earned in foreign countries by American-based corporations that has not been repatriated, he will provide greater incentives for American corporations to relocate to a more hospitable base country.  He will not raise as much money as static projections would predict, and he will cause productive activity to fall worldwide.</p>
<p>As for money being acquired under threat of force, I was referring to taxation in general.  There is a box for voluntary donations to the government on your tax return.  It doesn&#39;t raise much money.</p>
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		<title>By: Gherald L</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587767</link>
		<dc:creator>Gherald L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587767</guid>
		<description>&gt; Will seems to be an example of Confirmation Bias in action these days.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I wouldn&#039;t go quite that far, but I do think this post and the column are an unfortunate example of confirmation bias...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Will seems to be an example of Confirmation Bias in action these days.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#39;t go quite that far, but I do think this post and the column are an unfortunate example of confirmation bias&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gherald L</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/25/the-incoherent-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-587766</link>
		<dc:creator>Gherald L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2972#comment-587766</guid>
		<description>Well you&#039;re generalizing it in a way inconsistent with Obama&#039;s meaning, which is that we should work harder to keep up with countries like Korea in areas like making batteries.  There&#039;s nothing zero sum about wanting the U.S. to work harder and be competitive in these areas.  And in fact when different players such as  a U.S. company and a Korean company compete well with each other at supplying the same products, efficiency increases and more wealth gets created by everyone who uses those products.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Arguably any government subsidies for things like car battery manufacturers are likely to be a zero or negative sum monetarily, but not zero sum in achieving policy goals such as reducing carbon emissions.  Whether it&#039;s worth it depends on how highly you value those policy goals.  Obviously many on the right value carbon emission harm at something close to $0, but a typical lefty like Obama sees things differently, and that difference is not an incoherence on his part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well you&#39;re generalizing it in a way inconsistent with Obama&#39;s meaning, which is that we should work harder to keep up with countries like Korea in areas like making batteries.  There&#39;s nothing zero sum about wanting the U.S. to work harder and be competitive in these areas.  And in fact when different players such as  a U.S. company and a Korean company compete well with each other at supplying the same products, efficiency increases and more wealth gets created by everyone who uses those products.</p>
<p>Arguably any government subsidies for things like car battery manufacturers are likely to be a zero or negative sum monetarily, but not zero sum in achieving policy goals such as reducing carbon emissions.  Whether it&#39;s worth it depends on how highly you value those policy goals.  Obviously many on the right value carbon emission harm at something close to $0, but a typical lefty like Obama sees things differently, and that difference is not an incoherence on his part.</p>
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