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	<title>Comments on: Liberaltarian Reactions</title>
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	<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
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		<title>By: More Monopoly Power in Education &#124; Radical Ignorance</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-595269</link>
		<dc:creator>More Monopoly Power in Education &#124; Radical Ignorance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 02:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-595269</guid>
		<description>[...] like this make me hopeful that the country could be swept by a liberaltarian movement. Education reform should be a high priority of such a movement. By agreeing to commit [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] like this make me hopeful that the country could be swept by a liberaltarian movement. Education reform should be a high priority of such a movement. By agreeing to commit [...]</p>
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		<title>By: R4 Cards</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-592478</link>
		<dc:creator>R4 Cards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-592478</guid>
		<description>The problem is intractable when it reflects a deep enculturated distrust between classical liberals and contemporary liberals. The latter suspect that even moderate libertarian types reject the legitimacy of regulation altogether, and so are just being coy when pointing out the costs of regulation. Libertarians aren’t really interested in regulatory efficiency. They just hate regulation, period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is intractable when it reflects a deep enculturated distrust between classical liberals and contemporary liberals. The latter suspect that even moderate libertarian types reject the legitimacy of regulation altogether, and so are just being coy when pointing out the costs of regulation. Libertarians aren’t really interested in regulatory efficiency. They just hate regulation, period.</p>
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		<title>By: dude91</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-592451</link>
		<dc:creator>dude91</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-592451</guid>
		<description>Good read , i like the way you put your point forward . &lt;br&gt;I agree with all you said up there !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good read , i like the way you put your point forward . <br />I agree with all you said up there !</p>
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		<title>By: Mobile Phone Accessories</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-592348</link>
		<dc:creator>Mobile Phone Accessories</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-592348</guid>
		<description>Conservatives may be against big government in theory, but rarely are in practice; they tend to be more interested in regulating expression because of concerns about vulgarity, for instance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conservatives may be against big government in theory, but rarely are in practice; they tend to be more interested in regulating expression because of concerns about vulgarity, for instance.</p>
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		<title>By: dustinjruybal</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-590790</link>
		<dc:creator>dustinjruybal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 22:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-590790</guid>
		<description>The latter suspect that even moderate libertarian types reject the legitimacy of regulation altogether, and so are just being coy when pointing out the costs of regulation. Libertarians aren’t really interested in regulatory efficiency. They just hate regulation, period.The other thing is (and this is no ones fault)  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thrift-savings-plan.net&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;thrift savings plan&lt;/a&gt; when public arguments are made against regulation liberals aren&#039;t usually the targets- low information middle class moderates are which leads to regulation opponents making their arguments not about helping the poor but about the government trying to take over Regular Joe&#039;s life. So not only does your funding not come from people we trust but often the arguments your making look to us like manipulating people with fear</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The latter suspect that even moderate libertarian types reject the legitimacy of regulation altogether, and so are just being coy when pointing out the costs of regulation. Libertarians aren’t really interested in regulatory efficiency. They just hate regulation, period.The other thing is (and this is no ones fault)  <a href="http://www.thrift-savings-plan.net" rel="nofollow">thrift savings plan</a> when public arguments are made against regulation liberals aren&#39;t usually the targets- low information middle class moderates are which leads to regulation opponents making their arguments not about helping the poor but about the government trying to take over Regular Joe&#39;s life. So not only does your funding not come from people we trust but often the arguments your making look to us like manipulating people with fear</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Taylor's Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-587515</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Taylor's Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 03:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-587515</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;In Defence of Insufficient&#160;Government*...&lt;/strong&gt;

There has been a lot of chatter recently about the idea of liberaltarianism: the potential political alliance between libertarians and contemporary left liberals. Being someone who came to libertarianism a few years back from a pragmatic left liberal p...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>In Defence of Insufficient&nbsp;Government*&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>There has been a lot of chatter recently about the idea of liberaltarianism: the potential political alliance between libertarians and contemporary left liberals. Being someone who came to libertarianism a few years back from a pragmatic left liberal p&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dan H</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-587206</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-587206</guid>
		<description>A more fundamental rift between liberals and libertarians is that liberals believe that society and economic activity needs to be planned by a central authority.  This is why they are almost always in favor of new regulations - a regulation is a plan, an attempt to control what they see as out-of-control forces.  No matter how good an economy is, it can always be made better by the smart people at the top, so long as they are given the power to change things.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Libertarians, on the other hand, are okay with the notion that a modern society is an exercise in spontaneous order, and that optimal solutions are often reached if you simply let society or the economy work out the problem and adapt.  Most libertarians accept that society has to work within a framework of social order and civil society, and that government has a place in maintaining the conditions which allows markets to work and people to be free to choose without coercion.  This separates them from anarchists.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Conservatives get along with libertarians because they share the same fundamental beliefs when it comes to the economy, only they tend to personify it by saying that the family and local community are the drivers of social order, and they seek to protect them.  Both Conservatives and libertarians have an inherent distrust of central planning, and this overrides their differences on social policy enough to allow them to work together.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Where conservatives and libertarians differ is that conservatives think the central government should be the protector of established social norms and morality, and libertarians do not.  But compared to their agreement that central planning of the economy is bad, this is a much smaller area of disagreement.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I do not see how libertarians and liberals can work together so long as liberals seek to continually increase the state&#039;s power to plan society and control the market.  This is a very deep, very fundamental difference in philosophy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A more fundamental rift between liberals and libertarians is that liberals believe that society and economic activity needs to be planned by a central authority.  This is why they are almost always in favor of new regulations &#8211; a regulation is a plan, an attempt to control what they see as out-of-control forces.  No matter how good an economy is, it can always be made better by the smart people at the top, so long as they are given the power to change things.</p>
<p>Libertarians, on the other hand, are okay with the notion that a modern society is an exercise in spontaneous order, and that optimal solutions are often reached if you simply let society or the economy work out the problem and adapt.  Most libertarians accept that society has to work within a framework of social order and civil society, and that government has a place in maintaining the conditions which allows markets to work and people to be free to choose without coercion.  This separates them from anarchists.</p>
<p>Conservatives get along with libertarians because they share the same fundamental beliefs when it comes to the economy, only they tend to personify it by saying that the family and local community are the drivers of social order, and they seek to protect them.  Both Conservatives and libertarians have an inherent distrust of central planning, and this overrides their differences on social policy enough to allow them to work together.</p>
<p>Where conservatives and libertarians differ is that conservatives think the central government should be the protector of established social norms and morality, and libertarians do not.  But compared to their agreement that central planning of the economy is bad, this is a much smaller area of disagreement.</p>
<p>I do not see how libertarians and liberals can work together so long as liberals seek to continually increase the state&#39;s power to plan society and control the market.  This is a very deep, very fundamental difference in philosophy.</p>
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		<title>By: webgrrl</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-587164</link>
		<dc:creator>webgrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-587164</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;em&gt;smoking bans, transfats&lt;/em&gt;&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Um, Craig, reality check: here in NYC all that &quot;nanny state nonsense&quot; was pushed by um, the then-Republican, Bloomberg. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I find most liberals are too busy telling me that FGM can&#039;t be judged because it&#039;s an issue of multiculturalism and oh no they wouldn&#039;t ever &lt;strong&gt;judge&lt;/strong&gt;; it&#039;s conservatives who are making me infantile, telling me how I have to live my life and how I can&#039;t get birth control inexpensively over-the-counter because &lt;strong&gt;they&lt;/strong&gt; have religious beliefs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<em>smoking bans, transfats</em>&#8220;</p>
<p>Um, Craig, reality check: here in NYC all that &#8220;nanny state nonsense&#8221; was pushed by um, the then-Republican, Bloomberg. </p>
<p>I find most liberals are too busy telling me that FGM can&#39;t be judged because it&#39;s an issue of multiculturalism and oh no they wouldn&#39;t ever <strong>judge</strong>; it&#39;s conservatives who are making me infantile, telling me how I have to live my life and how I can&#39;t get birth control inexpensively over-the-counter because <strong>they</strong> have religious beliefs.</p>
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		<title>By: toad</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-587156</link>
		<dc:creator>toad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-587156</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The problem is intractable when it reflects a deep enculturated distrust between classical liberals and contemporary liberals. The latter suspect that even moderate libertarian types reject the legitimacy of regulation altogether, and so are just being coy when pointing out the costs of regulation. Libertarians aren’t really interested in regulatory efficiency. They just hate regulation, period.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well, yes. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ve read too many libertarian screeds about  abolishing the Federal Reserve, &quot;taxation is theft,&quot; getting rid of OSHA, the evils of environmental rules, and even zoning, repealing civil rights laws, etc. to believe otherwise.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The fact is libertarians generally come across as fanatic ideologues - the kind of people you edge away from at a party so as not to hear about how fractional reserve banking is the source of all our troubles, and how wonderful things are in Somalia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The problem is intractable when it reflects a deep enculturated distrust between classical liberals and contemporary liberals. The latter suspect that even moderate libertarian types reject the legitimacy of regulation altogether, and so are just being coy when pointing out the costs of regulation. Libertarians aren’t really interested in regulatory efficiency. They just hate regulation, period.</i></p>
<p>Well, yes. </p>
<p>I&#39;ve read too many libertarian screeds about  abolishing the Federal Reserve, &#8220;taxation is theft,&#8221; getting rid of OSHA, the evils of environmental rules, and even zoning, repealing civil rights laws, etc. to believe otherwise.</p>
<p>The fact is libertarians generally come across as fanatic ideologues &#8211; the kind of people you edge away from at a party so as not to hear about how fractional reserve banking is the source of all our troubles, and how wonderful things are in Somalia.</p>
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		<title>By: The Hope and Horror of Liberaltarian Alignments</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-587116</link>
		<dc:creator>The Hope and Horror of Liberaltarian Alignments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-587116</guid>
		<description>[...] Obama era - that makes libertarian intellectuals feel welcome, engages them in conversations about smarter regulations and more efficient tax policy, and generally woos them away from their culturally-dissonant [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Obama era &#8211; that makes libertarian intellectuals feel welcome, engages them in conversations about smarter regulations and more efficient tax policy, and generally woos them away from their culturally-dissonant [...]</p>
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		<title>By: toad</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-587117</link>
		<dc:creator>toad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-587117</guid>
		<description>Funny, I would say much te same about libertarians. Thaey are so enamored of their theories that they ignore how the world really works.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The libertarian seems all too willing to focus on hypothetical benefits of unfettered market interactions while disregarding the cost.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m not trying to say who&#039;s wrong or right here, just that sometimes a look in the mirror is worthwhile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny, I would say much te same about libertarians. Thaey are so enamored of their theories that they ignore how the world really works.</p>
<p>The libertarian seems all too willing to focus on hypothetical benefits of unfettered market interactions while disregarding the cost.</p>
<p>I&#39;m not trying to say who&#39;s wrong or right here, just that sometimes a look in the mirror is worthwhile.</p>
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		<title>By: Objectively Biased</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-587038</link>
		<dc:creator>Objectively Biased</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-587038</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Practical Structure of Liberaltarianism...&lt;/strong&gt;

I&#8217;m always game for a good liberaltarian discussion (or meta-discussion, as the case may be), and I generally think Will Wilkinson and Ron Chusid are two of the better idea-generators for such discussion. Lately, Will responded to some critiques ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Practical Structure of Liberaltarianism&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I&#8217;m always game for a good liberaltarian discussion (or meta-discussion, as the case may be), and I generally think Will Wilkinson and Ron Chusid are two of the better idea-generators for such discussion. Lately, Will responded to some critiques &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Farmer</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-587039</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Farmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 17:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-587039</guid>
		<description>Socializing may help understanding so as too prevent demonizing others over disagreements on principles, but then that would apply to socializing with individuals on the left or right -- however, in the interest of integrity, the differences in principles trump any harmony generated by socializing. Any regulations which protect the rights of life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness, I&#039;m in agreement with -- any regulation which violates these rights, I disagree with on principle - even if in the company of the individual with whom I disagree I enjoy a good glass of wine and a discussion whether John Ashbery is a great poet or word-clown perpetrating a literary hoax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Socializing may help understanding so as too prevent demonizing others over disagreements on principles, but then that would apply to socializing with individuals on the left or right &#8212; however, in the interest of integrity, the differences in principles trump any harmony generated by socializing. Any regulations which protect the rights of life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness, I&#39;m in agreement with &#8212; any regulation which violates these rights, I disagree with on principle &#8211; even if in the company of the individual with whom I disagree I enjoy a good glass of wine and a discussion whether John Ashbery is a great poet or word-clown perpetrating a literary hoax.</p>
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		<title>By: Thorstein Veblen</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-586980</link>
		<dc:creator>Thorstein Veblen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 06:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-586980</guid>
		<description>Um, I&#039;m a liberal -- I definitely lean way to the left of Will Wilkinson -- and I definitely do not support many/(most?) local zoning/housing/rent control regulations which are often designed to protect entrenched interests. They are inherently undemocratic... It&#039;s unfair to say that liberals always support this stuff when we don&#039;t... Rather, it is the entrenched local interests who stand to lose that you need to convince...  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://firelarrysummersnow.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://firelarrysummersnow.blogspot.com/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, I&#39;m a liberal &#8212; I definitely lean way to the left of Will Wilkinson &#8212; and I definitely do not support many/(most?) local zoning/housing/rent control regulations which are often designed to protect entrenched interests. They are inherently undemocratic&#8230; It&#39;s unfair to say that liberals always support this stuff when we don&#39;t&#8230; Rather, it is the entrenched local interests who stand to lose that you need to convince&#8230;  </p>
<p><a href="http://firelarrysummersnow.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://firelarrysummersnow.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/02/13/liberaltarian-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-586977</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 03:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2832#comment-586977</guid>
		<description>Seconding this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seconding this.</p>
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