Which Party Wins from Inequality?

by Will Wilkinson on November 7, 2008

Jim Manzi has graciously replied to my inequality post below. Let me just reply to this one bit now, and I’ll take up his worries about the threat of the angry mob later.

I think the reason this indicates that inequality poses “more of a political problem for Republican coalition-building than it does for the Democrats” is, to [simplify] greatly, that if inequality of condition causes a preference for Democratic policies, then as inequality increases, you will get more Democrats. If it’s a marker for other causes of Democratic voting, then it’s a marker for things that make more Democrats. The idea of a coalition of aristocrats and the proletariat against the petite bourgeoisie and yeoman farmers is not a new one.

I’ve see no evidence that inequality tends to produce more Democratic voters. Does Jim have some?

It’s funny, because Jim is arguing the opposite of what I’m calling in my paper the Inequality Road to Serfdom (IRS) argument, which just about every left-leaning thinker seems to accept. According to IRS, the wealthy convert their economic resources into political resources deployed to protect their advantages.  Past a certain threshold of inequality, the gap in political resources is so vast that the wealthy–by means of insidious think tanks and the Republican Party–basically capture the democratic process and effectively disenfranchise the rest of the population, leaving us with a de facto oligarchy hiding inside a meaningless husk of democratic forms. Serfdom! Which is just to say, the worry on the left has been that as you get more inequality, you get more Republicans. This is superficially plausible to your Paul Krugmans in part because the era of rising inequality, beginning in the early 1970s, corresponds with a resurgence of Republican political power, first with Reagan, then big Republican congressional majorities in the 1990s, and then unified Republican government under Bush. I’d be interested to hear more from Jim about why Krugman et al have been getting it exactly backwards.

There does seem to be a mild increase in support recently for redistribution, but it doesn’t look like a steady, long-term trend. Income inequality has increased a lot over the last thirty years but over that time support for redistribution has zig zagged all over the place. If I recall the paper I’m thinking of from Lane Kenworthy, the rise in inequality seems to correlate well with fairly firm gains in demand for education reform–pointing to the typical American focus on opportunity–but that doesn’t obviously help the Democratic Party, insofar as it is widely identified an agent of the change-hating teacher’s unions.

I think Democratic gains in the last election have almost nothing to do with inequality. Most of the gains are just part of the political business cycle, and so indicate nothing much other than that the candidate from the incumbent party doesn’t do well when saddled with an unpopular war and a recession. I think the more likely permanent gains, among the young and rich, for example, have a lot to do with the general (I think salutary) social liberalization of American moral culture. The GOP is intolerably socially conservative for an increasing share of Americans. I predict that a significant decrease in inequality, whether from recession or redistribution, would do almost nothing to stop this flight toward the Democrats.

  • muirgeo
    you claim a desire to believe policy doesn't effect economics or distribution.

    "Is that really what I'm saying? No. It isn't. Once again, a strawman. I said there is no partisan cohesion to policy over the decades and nothing to point to across the board that substantiates such a trend.? John V


    Well very good. I'm glad you clarified your claim As stated above it's very easy to disprove. There most definitely are consistent policies that explain the economic outcomes of the 2 parties. Quite simply Democratic regimes favor the middle class and the Republican regimes favor wealth.

    From tax laws, to corporate and regulatory laws to education and support for labor the differences are clear.


    There's simply little to debate here. You'll clearly want to mince details but most people are pretty clear of the obvious policy differences between the 2 parties. And anyone who looks a little deeper will see what are even more glaring differences.
  • John V
    I didn't clarify my claim, I merely paraphrased what was already clearly there to begin with. Repeat: It was already there written in plain English. You try to go off on strawman tangents.

    A strawman, Muirgeo, is the act of taking someone's argument and twisting or reducing it down to a weakest and inaccurate form to allow for a response that seems to refute the argument. But it doesn't refute the argument. It merely refutes a weak argument that wasn't really made....which is pointless.

    You'll clearly want to mince details but most people are pretty clear of the obvious policy differences between the 2 parties.

    The only one mincing details (and mincing them beyond recognition) is you.

    Yes, there are some obvious policy differences between the parties. That by itself is meaningless to the point you want to make.

    Because now we can come full circle and ask again and I'll pull something I already said upthread:

    Over the decades, neither party's presidents, as a group, have anything broad and unifying about the policies they adopted.

    What do Truman, JFK, LBJ and Clinton have in common beyond being Democrats in terms of policy that could possibly do anything even remotely close to causing certain economic outcomes that provoke or hinder inequality and GDP growth?

    Ditto for the GOP...


    Raising/cutting taxes? No true pattern. Both parties raised and cut taxes.
    trade liberalization vs.protectionism? liberalizing was mostly by Democrats....even though it's not something they campaign on or support. Protectionist measures were adopted by both parties over the years.
    Regulation/Deregulation? Again, no pattern. Both parties have done both.

    So when you look for partisan policy specifics...IOW, as Krugman said: "a controlling mechanism", there's not much to be found to explain anything that you and others would like to point.

    Now, monetary policy, business cycles and demographics and technology play a role as well...and it could very well be a much more influential role. And that is out of the hands of either party. Fed chairman, from the Dems and GOP alike, have done things, not done things, suggested things and been ignored and listened to with no real pattern. Again, what's the controlling mechanism?

    Rhetoric and stereotypes don't cut it. What are the defining partisan policies formulated by the President in concert with Congress that empirically explain the theme you like to push? You say it's "obvious". So what is it? From Truman to Bush 2...what is it? Let's hear it.
  • John Thacker
    Quite simply Democratic regimes favor the middle class and the Republican regimes favor wealth.

    And yet at the state level, Republican-controlled states have shown decreases in inequality while Democratic-controlled states have shown increases.

    There's lots of complicated effects going around that can be used to make an argument in many different directions, though, as Andrew Gelman points out.
  • TheZSpot
    I really have to disagree with this. As you pointed out, the gini coefficient of the Democratic voters is most likely higher than that of Republicans. This, in fact, supports the argument that inequality works in favor of the Dems. The richest of the rich and the poorest of the poor support the Dems. The middle ground supports the Republicans (oversimplified, I know). If this is the case, wouldn't growing the extremes (increasing inequality) and shrinking the middle benefit the Dems?

    Personally, my explanation is this. The vast majority of people vote in their own self interests. For the poorest of the poor, this means voting for the person or party who says that they stand for redistribution. For the vast middle ground, and in particular, the high end of the vast middle ground, this means voting for the person or party that wants to leave your money in your hands. Then you get to the $110K+ crowd, and in particular, the $110k academic/social scientist/Ivy League crowd. They have the intellectual foundation, and the self-righteousness, to vote with their "conscious" rather than their self interest. And they can afford to do so.

    Also, to whoever made the minimum wage comment: I think that the realities of its effect have little bearing on how it affects who will vote for who, and here's why. Those lowest skilled people, whose unemployment is actually increasing, are worried about getting a paycheck. As you said, they're lower skilled, thus probably not an education in the theoretical and empirical workings of economics and politics. They see a promise to make more money per hour. They don't see that this in fact is probably worse for them. Therefor, they are still, in the end, more likely to support a politician who supports raising the minimum wage, even if they will be worse off.

    http://thezspot.today.com
    http://gamingtips.today.com
  • muirgeo
    John,


    I read your debate with Bruce Wilder on Economists View and he defended the same position as I ( although much better). Over there and as here you claim a desire to believe policy doesn't effect economics or distribution.


    That is your position which for some reason you WANT to believe. But it is frankly absurd.

    From North Korean policy to Swedish policy to that of Brazilian policy... policy is the big picture item that drowns out the significance of the business cycle.

    The idea that there is no difference is policy effects from conservative American policies and Liberal/progressive American policies is simply some desire on your part to elevate the importance of the business cycle. For as one who believes free markets are the best answer you must negate the significance of "minor policy differences" to defend and provide a base for your own ideology. Particularly if the minor party policy differences favor slightly leftward solutions. Best just to obscure and muddle up the data the same way global warming deniers do. (And coincidentally for the same reason... to defend libertarianism).


    Don't tell us you have non-partisan interest in the subject. That's only true in that their are no libertarians that exist in power but if they did boy would you ever support them in a partisan manor as you do here.

    Nope your position on these inequality and policy issues is simply a defense of you own partisan position. Of course there is NO DATA on your position just theory and belief.
  • John V
    you claim a desire to believe policy doesn't effect economics or distribution.

    Is that really what I'm saying? No. It isn't. Once again, a strawman. I said there is no partisan cohesion to policy over the decades and nothing to point to across the board that substantiates such a trend. That's a different claim than the strawman claim you keeping wanting fight.

    I'm not going to get out a yard stick and explain it all to you on a blackboard. Go back, read what I said and see for yourself. Otherwise, don't bother. Because all you're doing is changing the discussion parameters as you go along.

    The rest is simply a furthering of the imaginary discussion you think you're always having no matter what the topic.

    Try again.
  • muirgeo
    John V,


    Your only defense is to claim straw man or troll. I think everyone reading can clearly understand that.

    There is nothing straw-man about me asking on what factual basis you propose a libertarian economy as some how superior. The fact is you can't answer the question outside of polemics and hand-waving. You have no data to even present such as the data I present which you like to simply deny with a wave of the hand.


    I can give logical , factual, data driven, historical and theoretical reasons for why I believe demand side economics works as well as why libertarianism is a faith based belief.

    You have nothing but trolls and straw men to defend your pitiful self. You have no supporting data so all you are left with is to deny the data that does exist as imperfect.


    John if you don't like what I write and you can't defend yourself skip my post and don't reply. But if you do reply at least be a man and attempt a counter point rather then to lamely throw names and labels about with no back up for you assertions.
  • John V
    Your own words against you:

    "But if you do reply at least be a man and attempt a counter point rather then to lamely throw names and labels about with no back up for you assertions."

    Practice what you preach.
  • John V
    And in your heart of hearts, Muirgeo, you KNOW that what you wrote is a strawman.

    Go read my long post above and be critical of yourself and ask yourself what you really responded to. The answer is nothing and you know it.

    You have self-control to stay on topic because you have no idea what you're talking about. You dig up something, make a vacuous claim...then I explain why and you go off on tangent. Same story. You have no facts or data....just a silly study that liberal economists don't give much weight to. I've said plenty on this thread and the link provided above and you've said NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING in direct response.

    You're a waste of time.
  • John V
    No. Not at all. My defense is everything else I've said. Don't sit there and act like there is some there there. There isn't. You did not respond to my post and what I said. You used it, as you you usually do, as a spring board into some tired generic and uninformed tirade that you've polluted many threads with before. repeat, you did respond to what I wrote. You used it to go off on a tangent of your choosing. Thus: Strawman. It's all a strawman. You simply try to derail any conversation.

    I wrote plenty up there. If you want to respond to what I wrote, go ahread and I will address the substance. But I'm taking any bait to engage you worthless strawmen. It's old news.

    Again: Respond to what I wrote. Not what you want to interpret from what I wrote..no...WHAT I WROTE.
  • muirgeo
    "What do Truman, JFK, LBJ and Clinton have in common beyond being Democrats in terms of policy that could possibly do anything even remotely close to causing certain economic outcomes that provoke or hinder inequality and GDP growth? "

    Ditto for the GOP...

    Here's the answer:

    Nothing. Zip. Nada!"
    John V


    John V,

    Just you claiming something doesn't make it true.
    To deny the different economic milieu from the 3 major economic periods of modern America is intellectually dishonest. From the differences in support for labor unions, minimum wages, social programs, trade policies and tax and regulatory structure structure.

    The significant macro economic effects of democratic policies that push down employment while allowing less concern for inflation specifically effect workers wages which specifically effects demand and grows the economy better then Republican policies that general lead to accumulations of wealth at the top , stagnation of others wages and eventual decreases in demand and less economic growth.


    That you think Bartles numbers are mere happenstance or that this trend is not policy related is likely more a problem with you being unreasonable than of me being overly assuming.


    But here's the good news. It looks like Demand side economics might get a good run to provide a fourth episode of which we can compare macro economic performance and presidential policy. I have every reason to be optimistic considering what the past data suggest.

    But you have the supposed superior belief that claims doing nothing would be the best policy to get us out of this mess we are in. You belittle me for interpreting the data the way I do but no significant serious economist believes doing nothing would be the best solution. In fact , most suggest it would be phenomenally disastrous. So I suggest you tone down your smugness, re-evaluate the evidence and your own beliefs and sit down and enjoy the ride as the future push to reward work and real productivity over interest earnings, market manipulation and speculation grow us out of this laissez faire economic crap-fest.
  • John V
    More strawman. See previous post.
  • muirgeo
    "Knowing how the economy works at the most rudimentary level and honoring all of its complexity prevents any semi-serious thinker from embracing such nonsensical brain candy like Bartels's" John V


    Then there seems to be an obvious absurdity to your position. You claim policy differences don't effect economic function or performance. If we can't untie the effects of real life policy on economics on what basis are you a libertarian? Simply on a theoretical basis? Or is your position faith based?

    We've all come to an agreement on the successes of regulated capitalism over socialism/communism but where does the idea of free market superiority over regulated capitalism come from?


    I can't imagine you'd point to the 1880- 1929 period as a success for free markets or a failure of regulated ones... how about the 40 years that followed with increased regulation and a growing economy that was relatively stable? Then this followed by the last 30 years of deregulatory policy and the current massive economic collapse.

    Sure you don't want to claim any of these as yours. But what do you claim as yours? What real world examples support your beliefs? You sure like to point to me as one who is over simplifying how the economy works but I think you have to look at your own beliefs as well. You sure you are not even more guilty then me of over simplifying?


    What I tout IS well described in the economic literature. It's called demand side economics and while I'm no expert it seems to make sense and to be applicable to the real world and supported by real world data.

    Maybe my presentation is not the best. Maybe my understanding is not the best but you call me a troll more as a convenience to yourself rather then having to do the hard work of questioning your own beliefs and trying to defend them.


    I'm the atheist here. You're the one with the radical dogmatic belief system that doesn't like to have to defend itself. You are the one that seems to claim he knows the mind of god or in this case the economy and thus should not be questioned by heathens like myself.

    Where John where is the evidence for your free market capitalism thats more rigid then Bartels evidence of the difference between conservative and modern liberal American economies?
  • John V
    More strawman observations by Muirgeo followed by more strawman questions and tangents.

    If you had any appreciation of inflationary monetary policy coupled with a gold standard and the effects of war on the subsequent years, you wouldn't talk like such an ass.

    Sorry if I seem rude to others reading. Muirgeo is not some random poster with sincere questions. It's a troll.
  • muirgeo
    "Which Party Wins from Inequality?"


    It's not the issue which party wins from inequality. This issue is which party more likely creates inequality. Increasing inequality is economically less effecient at all income levels and in large degrees results in economic collapse so NO PARTY wins with increasing inequality.

    The meme that needs to be sent to sea is the one that suggest increasing inequality is associated with good economic policy or economic growth. It's not with either.
  • John V
    See what I mean, Will?

    ;)
  • muirgeo
    No John no one sees what you mean because you never try to counter a point. You simply claim outright that no point was made. So what you mean is nothing cause you haven't said anything.

    The evidence clearly shows increasing inequality with republican policies and the opposite with democratic policies. Show some counter evidence... so we can see what you mean.

    My claim is very logical , supported by many experts opinions, supported by data and should be falsifiable.

    I represent a counter position on the issue while you in fact are the troll making claims with NO support and not advancing or even willing to attempt a refutation.
  • Dan
    Muirgeo--

    I commend you for pointing out empirical evidence in the previous post's comments. I will make similar comments here to recap.

    Bartels makes two comments about differences between Republicans and Democrats. One: Democrats increase the minimum wage more. Two: Republicans tend to be concerned with inflation.

    On the first point: The minimum wage tends to increase unemployment amongst the least skilled (you may not accept this, but I do), see the previous point for a reference to empirical data. If the minimum wage does increase unemployment, then these people would probably weigh down the income gains that Bartels finds in his study (I don't believe that unemployed, with an income of $0, would be included in a graph of income percentiles)

    Two: inflation erodes existing wealth. Wealth is an accumulation of income. Bartels's graph is of income, not wealth. So while his study may show that more new wealth is created under Democrats, it does not show whether the total amount of wealth in the United States does better under Democrats than under Republicans (and, as much as you may not want to admit, the top 1% of the income distribution is not the only percentile with accumulated wealth).

    Your opposition is welcome. But I think posting a graph without thinking critically about the numbers is not an argument.
  • John V
    Dan,

    The Bartels argument is well covered territory. It's also well-covered territory with Muirgeo. There's context here. Muigeo knows that but it has the discussion retention of a goldfish.

    The Bartels study is not serious work in terms of finding some valid causation. The agenda of it borders on irresponsible for a serious academic.

    Ya know,

    Since 1970, Italy has won the World Cup every time the final four nations were European. And two of those other nations were Germany and France BOTH times. Wow. And the 4th nation started with the letter "P" BOTH times. Wow. Is there some corollary here? Hmmm.

    OF COURSE not.

    Also, the first time the WC was Italy, Italy won. The Second time it was in Italy, Germany won. The First time the Cup was in Germany, Germany won. The second time it was Germany, Italy won. Hmmmm. I think we're onto something here. Did I just discover a solidly positive causal corollary?? Is there something to delved into?

    Of course not.

    The Bartels study is similar in this respect.

    I have several problems with the Bartels study. And full disclosure, I'm a non-partisan independent libertarian who couldn't give a damn about either party's face or reputation and neither represent my economic POV enough for me to call it my own. In short, I don't have a dog in this race.

    Over the decades, neither party's presidents, as a group, have anything broad and unifying about the policies they adopted.

    What do Truman, JFK, LBJ and Clinton have in common beyond being Democrats in terms of policy that could possibly do anything even remotely close to causing certain economic outcomes that provoke or hinder inequality and GDP growth?

    Ditto for the GOP...

    Here's the answer:

    Nothing. Zip. Nada.

    Taxes were raised and cut with rhyme or reason. Same goes for deregulation, spending and trade policy. Fed policy was pretty much out of their hands and demographics and business cycles were REALLY out of their hands.

    The make up of Congress matters. Demographics matter. Business cycles matter. And of course, monetary policy matters.

    In the end, it's rather naive and childish to try and link the party affiliation of the butt sitting in the oval office with national economic performance as if there's some corollary to be taken seriously.

    Serious economists don't take it very seriously. DO some find it interesting? Yes. Some do. But do they resist the silly and arrogant "Ah-HA" like that of Muirgeo in search of anything to buttress its dim partisan worldview? Every time. Even Krugman, the king of partisans among liberal economists can't give it much weight. He knows better.

    Muigeo has an agenda. And it's partisan in nature. If they did a test with a lab monkey that made the Dems look good, Muirgeo would be all over it with silliest of supreme and unfounded confidences to boast of the result...all while not being capable of explaining what exactly it's supposed to mean.

    Knowing how the economy works at the most rudimentary level and honoring all of its complexity prevents any semi-serious thinker from embracing such nonsensical brain candy like Bartels's

    I took part in a discussion about this at Economists View which Tyler Cowen liked enough to link to. Have a read.

    Maybe I should keep track of the minute I wake up in the morning to see if waking up on an odd or even minute shows some corollary as to if I have a good day or a bad day. ;)
  • Dan
    When I say "see the previous point," I mean that I posted a response to you in the previous post's comments.
  • Paul O'Pinion
    webgrrl, nice lead to "Politics isn't about Policy". Politics is politics.
    Merriam-Webster gives three definitions of politics: a: the art or science of government b: the art or science concerned with guiding or influencing governmental policy c: the art or science concerned with winning and holding control over a government.
    I'm gonna go with c.
  • webgrrl
    "I predict that a significant decrease in inequality, whether from recession or redistribution, would do almost nothing to stop this flight toward the Democrats."

    Well of course. Politics isn't about Policy.
  • BTW, have you heard the latest Econ Talk with Richard Epstein? HIghly recommended, especially given your interests.
  • Paul O'Pinion
    Trevor makes a good point in that Mr. Bush's "compassionate conservatism" was not only expensive, but it was summarily dismissed by the left which sought to hate him because of his sin in being a Republican and also by the right , which is not into entitlements.
    While we speak of the decrease or increase in inequality, we should remember one of Churchill's best quotes:
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. "
    The fact is, this country is, even with the implosion of the financial markets, still awash in blessings. Don't tell me people are hungry - we are the most obese country in the world! By the way, while there are fat rich folks, there are a lot more obese 'poor' folks.
    I work at a community college full of kids working part and full-time jobs while taking a full course load of classes. They will be quite fine in the long run. Why? Because they are taking advantage of the blessings that so many people come to this country for. The changing of the guard in politics on any level (local, state and national) has everything to do with what Billy Crystal said while doing his Fernando Lamas impression: "It's not how you feel, it's how you look.!" And let's face it, Obama looks mahvelous! The guy ran a great campaign, he is the best speaker on the stump since Kennedy and you can't buy or manufacture that kind of charisma.
  • Trevor
    "I’ve see no evidence that inequality tends to produce more Democratic voters. Does Jim have some?"

    Well, tensions in the Republican coalition won't necessarily show up in partisan ID because you can't control for ideological positions. The equilibrium between Republicans and Democrats is dynamic. Arguably George W Bush running as a "compassionate conservative" and enacting new large entitlement programs is evidence that rising inequality creates increasing tensions for Republicans.

    More quantitative metrics for intra-party strife might be the spread between party members with strongly favorable as opposed to merely favorable attitudes towards nominees and fund-raising and other support for third-party candidates on the same "side" of the spectrum.
  • "I've seen no evidence that inequality tends to produce more Democratic voters."

    I don't have the link at the moment, but there was a New York Times article a while back that analyzed districts by income inequality and political affiliation. Districts with high income inequality (that is, within one district) tended to vote Democratic; districts that were homogeneous in income voted Republican. (The proximity thing is interesting. Do rich people care more about the plight of the poor if they live near them? Does living near rich people create envy and more desire for redistribution? Are homogeneous communities more traditional-minded?) If I remember correctly, Republican districts also tended to be middle-income, while the very rich and very poor were Democratic.

    That doesn't in itself mean that higher inequality will produce more Democratic wins, though. The evidence was about relative differences and doesn't tell us what will happen if overall inequality increases.
  • Trevor
    "I predict that a significant decrease in inequality, whether from recession or redistribution, would do almost nothing to stop this flight toward the Democrats."

    Maybe, but won't a recession threaten the emerging social liberal consensus, and potentially stem the flight towards the Democrats?
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