Freestyle Jazz Conservatizing

by Will Wilkinson on November 6, 2008

Oh my. Helen Rittelmeyer:

For the record, I think the Tocqueville point is mostly valid: “well-meaning matieralism” does yield a world “which will not corrupt the soul but noiselessly unbend its springs of action.” But that’s not why I think it’s important to have a theological understanding of suffering floating around our political vocabulary. There’s really only one defensible reason why I care (“the will to badass” being an indefensible reason), which is that I think the redemptive power of suffering is a fact about the world; it’s just true.

I don’t want to be mean to Ms. Rittelmeyer, because I don’t want her to like it. But the standards for determining what’s just true here are… elusive. The Tocqueville point is provably false. Wealthier, happier people are more creative and productive. Springs of action are unbent by depression and the demoralization of poverty. I know, I know. Booooring. But it is, as they say, just true. However, there is no second guessing the redemptive power of making things up.

  • Helen Rittelmeyer
    In dipping into Happiness Studies, I've seen at least a couple of the studies that prove happy people, chemically speaking, are more likely to produce creative output.

    I use the phrase "dipping into" to pay deference to your superior knowledge of the field. On the other hand, judging whether or not the creative output of contentment is any good is my field...
  • James Feldman
    "What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more' ... Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: 'You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine.' "

    ~The Gay Science

    Why does your argument sound so much like the Robert Bork analysis of Thomas More, or the Nixon-era arguments that the 60's counterculture was a result of post-scarcity?
  • bcg
    For those of us trying, earnestly trying, to understand this, can someone provide a link to a discussion about what redemption would be in this context? The word is clearly importing something into this debate that I'm not getting.
  • How could the Tocqueville point be provably false, when it's incoherent?
  • It's about the fact that not everyone has had the advantage of a life of privilege.
  • webgrrl
    Forgive me, what is the attachment to suffering here? I'm missing it, as I sit here in my plush bathrobe with a (healthy! i swear it!) glass of red wine. . .What is this hatred of pleasure all about?
  • Surely, though, your own assumption that more creativity and productivity are good-- or, more germane, redemptive-- is itself question begging.

    Right?
  • bcg
    What else could be meant by "springs of action" if not creativity and productivity?
  • 666
    You look like an elf.
  • Thank you?
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