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	<title>Comments on: The Douthat-Carter Continuum</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Hermenautic Circle blog &#187; Does watching porn = adultery?</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-581941</link>
		<dc:creator>Hermenautic Circle blog &#187; Does watching porn = adultery?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-581941</guid>
		<description>[...] continuum with adultery? I don't think it's insane to say yes. In response, Douthat got plenty of push-back and no small amount of ridicule online. But now he's expanded his series of posts into a full-blown [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] continuum with adultery? I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s insane to say yes. In response, Douthat got plenty of push-back and no small amount of ridicule online. But now he&#8217;s expanded his series of posts into a full-blown [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DOES USING PORN = CHEATING, PART I &#171; MEANINGFUL DISTRACTION</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-581929</link>
		<dc:creator>DOES USING PORN = CHEATING, PART I &#171; MEANINGFUL DISTRACTION</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-581929</guid>
		<description>[...] For more of the original blog posts from back in June which helped pave the way for this article, see here, here and here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] For more of the original blog posts from back in June which helped pave the way for this article, see here, here and here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: cheating wife porn</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-581522</link>
		<dc:creator>cheating wife porn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-581522</guid>
		<description>[...] yes. Then consider: Is there any similarity between having sex with a prostitute while you??rehttp://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/Christie Brinkley: Revenge of the scorned supermodel - New York Daily NewsOh, yeah, and once or [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] yes. Then consider: Is there any similarity between having sex with a prostitute while you??rehttp://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/Christie Brinkley: Revenge of the scorned supermodel - New York Daily NewsOh, yeah, and once or [...]</p>
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		<title>By: On The Plurality of Slippery Slopes &#124; novelette</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-581469</link>
		<dc:creator>On The Plurality of Slippery Slopes &#124; novelette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 06:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-581469</guid>
		<description>[...] did a very fine job dispatching the Douthat-Carter contribution to number theory and set theory: &#8220;[J]ust as &#8216;a lot of people would say&#8217; there is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] did a very fine job dispatching the Douthat-Carter contribution to number theory and set theory: &#8220;[J]ust as &#8216;a lot of people would say&#8217; there is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Art of the Possible &#187; Blog Archive &#187; On The Plurality of Slippery Slopes</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-581353</link>
		<dc:creator>The Art of the Possible &#187; Blog Archive &#187; On The Plurality of Slippery Slopes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-581353</guid>
		<description>[...] did a very fine job dispatching the Douthat-Carter contribution to number theory and set theory: &#8220;[J]ust as &#8216;a lot of people would say&#8217; there is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] did a very fine job dispatching the Douthat-Carter contribution to number theory and set theory: &#8220;[J]ust as &#8216;a lot of people would say&#8217; there is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Luka</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-582203</link>
		<dc:creator>Luka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-582203</guid>
		<description>Just re-read my sloppy comment above. In the first paragraph I meant to say that it&#39;s not clear that one needs to prove that God doesn&#39;t exist in order to have best and sufficient reason to believe God doesn&#39;t exist (as opposed to not believing in God).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also, I should&#39;ve added the following sentence to the end of the last paragraph of the post: "And Will is merely making a claim about God, with certainty, in a case where he reasonably takes himself to have best and sufficient reason to believe the thing he&#39;s claiming."&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There. It&#39;s still sloppy, I suppose. Just less so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just re-read my sloppy comment above. In the first paragraph I meant to say that it&#39;s not clear that one needs to prove that God doesn&#39;t exist in order to have best and sufficient reason to believe God doesn&#39;t exist (as opposed to not believing in God).</p>
<p>Also, I should&#39;ve added the following sentence to the end of the last paragraph of the post: &#8220;And Will is merely making a claim about God, with certainty, in a case where he reasonably takes himself to have best and sufficient reason to believe the thing he&#39;s claiming.&#8221;</p>
<p>There. It&#39;s still sloppy, I suppose. Just less so.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike D</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-582202</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-582202</guid>
		<description>Darby Clash and t have seen the point here.  The continuum is the one of fidelity and devotion -- how much mind-share and libido-share are you giving to your spouse/partner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darby Clash and t have seen the point here.  The continuum is the one of fidelity and devotion &#8212; how much mind-share and libido-share are you giving to your spouse/partner.</p>
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		<title>By: Luka</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-582201</link>
		<dc:creator>Luka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-582201</guid>
		<description>Joey,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#39;s not clear that one needs to prove that God doesn&#39;t exist in order to have best and sufficient reason to not believe in God. Probably, all one needs in order to have such reason is to think that the classic arguments for the existence of God aren&#39;t sound and that reference to God isn&#39;t needed in our best explanations about the world.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also, it seems as though the most relevant (to this post and its comments) conception of God is something like the Judeo-Christian God. And there&#39;s great reason to think that that God can&#39;t exist, given what he&#39;s supposed to be like (all-good, all-loving, all-powerful, all-knowing, sends non-believers to hell forever).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Lastly, Will&#39;s certainty with respect to his position doesn&#39;t seem to be noticeably higher than yours about yours. We&#39;re often justified in making claims, with certainty, in cases where we have best and sufficient reason to believe the things we&#39;re claiming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joey,</p>
<p>It&#39;s not clear that one needs to prove that God doesn&#39;t exist in order to have best and sufficient reason to not believe in God. Probably, all one needs in order to have such reason is to think that the classic arguments for the existence of God aren&#39;t sound and that reference to God isn&#39;t needed in our best explanations about the world.</p>
<p>Also, it seems as though the most relevant (to this post and its comments) conception of God is something like the Judeo-Christian God. And there&#39;s great reason to think that that God can&#39;t exist, given what he&#39;s supposed to be like (all-good, all-loving, all-powerful, all-knowing, sends non-believers to hell forever).</p>
<p>Lastly, Will&#39;s certainty with respect to his position doesn&#39;t seem to be noticeably higher than yours about yours. We&#39;re often justified in making claims, with certainty, in cases where we have best and sufficient reason to believe the things we&#39;re claiming.</p>
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		<title>By: Micha Ghertner</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-582200</link>
		<dc:creator>Micha Ghertner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-582200</guid>
		<description>[crossposted comment to &lt;a href="http://www.distributedrepublic.net/archives/2008/06/21/degrees-of-sexual-neuroses"&gt;Distributed Republic&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If you think comparing watching porn to having an affair is batshit crazy (and it is, of course), just be glad you didn&#39;t have to grow up learning that masturbation "&lt;a href="http://emet.blog-city.com/eh_23.htm"&gt;is the most severe of all Torah forbidden sins&lt;/a&gt;", including not just murder, but "when one emits sperm to waste it is as if he destroys the earth." Which is, of course, "&lt;a href="http://rchaimqoton.blogspot.com/2006/04/destroying-seeds.html"&gt;punishable by death&lt;/a&gt;."&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So give &lt;a href="http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/porn_and_adultery.php"&gt;Ross Douthat&lt;/a&gt; some credit here; at least he is only comparing masturbation to having an affair. His analogy could have been a whole lot batshit crazier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[crossposted comment to <a href="http://www.distributedrepublic.net/archives/2008/06/21/degrees-of-sexual-neuroses">Distributed Republic</a>]</p>
<p>If you think comparing watching porn to having an affair is batshit crazy (and it is, of course), just be glad you didn&#39;t have to grow up learning that masturbation &#8220;<a href="http://emet.blog-city.com/eh_23.htm">is the most severe of all Torah forbidden sins</a>&#8220;, including not just murder, but &#8220;when one emits sperm to waste it is as if he destroys the earth.&#8221; Which is, of course, &#8220;<a href="http://rchaimqoton.blogspot.com/2006/04/destroying-seeds.html">punishable by death</a>.&#8221;</p>
<p>So give <a href="http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/porn_and_adultery.php">Ross Douthat</a> some credit here; at least he is only comparing masturbation to having an affair. His analogy could have been a whole lot batshit crazier.</p>
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		<title>By: g j wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-581319</link>
		<dc:creator>g j wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-581319</guid>
		<description>[...] you??re married? I think most people would answer yes. Then consider: Is there any similarity betwhttp://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/No Headline The Huntington Herald-DispatchJammers Night, 7-9 p.m. every Thursday. Anybody who plays [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you??re married? I think most people would answer yes. Then consider: Is there any similarity betwhttp://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/No Headline The Huntington Herald-DispatchJammers Night, 7-9 p.m. every Thursday. Anybody who plays [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Darby Clash</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-582199</link>
		<dc:creator>Darby Clash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-582199</guid>
		<description>I&#39;d like to see the words "can be" used instead of "is" in a lot of places, and this is one of them.  If a man should use pr0n as a way of avoiding engagement with his spouse, there would seem to me to be a similarity with adultery.  I think this is bolstered by the human ability to form a "personal" relationship with purely notional persons---pixels, text, a notional deity&#39;s kid, corporations, nations, to name a few---which makes it possible for a "relationship" to partially or fully displace a relationship with an actual person.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On the other hand, this assumes a  pseudo-{zero-sum} relationship:  as one loves the third party more, one loves the party of the second part (or "Chico") less, or that the second party devalues the equal love felt for them [sic] because it is not exclusive.  My polyamourous friends assert that this is not the case for them when all such activity is super mensa...I&#39;d say, "I&#39;ll believe it when I see it," but I&#39;m not interested enough in them or the practice to look, so instead I&#39;ll take them on their word for now.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On the whole, though, I&#39;d avoid the word "adultery" because it&#39;s nuclear.  I once in 2002 had an e-mail correspondence with a local, half-reasonable radio talk-show host over his use of the term "treasonous" to describe some opponents of Bush&#39;s Iraq policy.  In the end, he retreated to calling them "morally treasonous", to which I objected on the grounds that using the word "treason" automatically brings more juice to the offence than consideration might well deem reasonable.  It&#39;s used more as a way of deciding the outcome of an argument, rather than of arguing, tantamount to circular reasoning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;d like to see the words &#8220;can be&#8221; used instead of &#8220;is&#8221; in a lot of places, and this is one of them.  If a man should use pr0n as a way of avoiding engagement with his spouse, there would seem to me to be a similarity with adultery.  I think this is bolstered by the human ability to form a &#8220;personal&#8221; relationship with purely notional persons&#8212;pixels, text, a notional deity&#39;s kid, corporations, nations, to name a few&#8212;which makes it possible for a &#8220;relationship&#8221; to partially or fully displace a relationship with an actual person.</p>
<p>On the other hand, this assumes a  pseudo-{zero-sum} relationship:  as one loves the third party more, one loves the party of the second part (or &#8220;Chico&#8221;) less, or that the second party devalues the equal love felt for them [sic] because it is not exclusive.  My polyamourous friends assert that this is not the case for them when all such activity is super mensa&#8230;I&#39;d say, &#8220;I&#39;ll believe it when I see it,&#8221; but I&#39;m not interested enough in them or the practice to look, so instead I&#39;ll take them on their word for now.</p>
<p>On the whole, though, I&#39;d avoid the word &#8220;adultery&#8221; because it&#39;s nuclear.  I once in 2002 had an e-mail correspondence with a local, half-reasonable radio talk-show host over his use of the term &#8220;treasonous&#8221; to describe some opponents of Bush&#39;s Iraq policy.  In the end, he retreated to calling them &#8220;morally treasonous&#8221;, to which I objected on the grounds that using the word &#8220;treason&#8221; automatically brings more juice to the offence than consideration might well deem reasonable.  It&#39;s used more as a way of deciding the outcome of an argument, rather than of arguing, tantamount to circular reasoning.</p>
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		<title>By: On The Porn-Adultery Knot &#171; A Banner Coward</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-581314</link>
		<dc:creator>On The Porn-Adultery Knot &#171; A Banner Coward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-581314</guid>
		<description>[...] The Porn-Adultery&#160;Knot  Well, like Ross Douthat, my mind has most definitely been &#8220;addled by religious dogma,&#8221; but I still think Douthat is a bit off with his argument about the moral congruities between [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Porn-Adultery&nbsp;Knot  Well, like Ross Douthat, my mind has most definitely been &#8220;addled by religious dogma,&#8221; but I still think Douthat is a bit off with his argument about the moral congruities between [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Understanding American Enthusiasms &#171; Just Above Sunset</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-581311</link>
		<dc:creator>Understanding American Enthusiasms &#171; Just Above Sunset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-581311</guid>
		<description>[...] And then there&#8217;s Will Wilkinson responding to Douthat: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And then there&#8217;s Will Wilkinson responding to Douthat: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jfcote87</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-582198</link>
		<dc:creator>jfcote87</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-582198</guid>
		<description>I&#39;m a little surprised that Haidt&#39;s purity/disgust moral axis has not been discussed here.  On a reciprocity axis, Will&#39;s claim that "One’s just wrong, one’s just not" is correct.  However, if infidelity is viewed as a purity (or pollution) issue within a relationship then the Ross&#39; makes some sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m a little surprised that Haidt&#39;s purity/disgust moral axis has not been discussed here.  On a reciprocity axis, Will&#39;s claim that &#8220;One’s just wrong, one’s just not&#8221; is correct.  However, if infidelity is viewed as a purity (or pollution) issue within a relationship then the Ross&#39; makes some sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Joey</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/06/19/the-douthat-carter-continuum/#comment-582197</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1510#comment-582197</guid>
		<description>Shecky,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No, I wouldn&#39;t think you unreasonable at all.  Nor do I think Will unreasonable for not believing in God.  The thing is, there are compelling arguments on both sides of the God debate, and none (to my knowledge) in the unicorn debate.  However, there really is no way to prove one side is right and the other side is wrong with respect to the existence of God.  Thus, my only complaint is the forcefulness with which both hardcore theists and atheists assert their superiority.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Look, this is Will&#39;s blog, and he can write whatever the hell he wants.  I&#39;m just making a minor suggestion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shecky,</p>
<p>No, I wouldn&#39;t think you unreasonable at all.  Nor do I think Will unreasonable for not believing in God.  The thing is, there are compelling arguments on both sides of the God debate, and none (to my knowledge) in the unicorn debate.  However, there really is no way to prove one side is right and the other side is wrong with respect to the existence of God.  Thus, my only complaint is the forcefulness with which both hardcore theists and atheists assert their superiority.</p>
<p>Look, this is Will&#39;s blog, and he can write whatever the hell he wants.  I&#39;m just making a minor suggestion.</p>
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