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	<title>Comments on: John Cassidy on Libertarian Paternalism: Way Too Libertarian!</title>
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	<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
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		<title>By: Celebrity Sunglasses</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-592081</link>
		<dc:creator>Celebrity Sunglasses</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-592081</guid>
		<description>Great post.. and I agree with you.. &quot;Anyway, the gist here is that John Cassidy is the guy Jonah Goldberg is trying to warn you about.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.. and I agree with you.. &#8220;Anyway, the gist here is that John Cassidy is the guy Jonah Goldberg is trying to warn you about.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Live lead transfer</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-591830</link>
		<dc:creator>Live lead transfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-591830</guid>
		<description>I agree with your last paragraph.. Behavioral economics, by demonstrating how people often fall victim to confusion, myopia, and trend following, provides another convincing ratio-nale for Keynesian policies, but you wouldn’t realize that from reading Thaler and Sunstein. Great post..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your last paragraph.. Behavioral economics, by demonstrating how people often fall victim to confusion, myopia, and trend following, provides another convincing ratio-nale for Keynesian policies, but you wouldn’t realize that from reading Thaler and Sunstein. Great post..</p>
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		<title>By: Devin Shirley</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-586794</link>
		<dc:creator>Devin Shirley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-586794</guid>
		<description>your blog is great 684 gratz!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>your blog is great 684 gratz!</p>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-581569</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-581569</guid>
		<description>[...] Wilkinson has a neat libertarian rejoinder for a journo who berates Cass Sunstein&#8217;s &#8220;libertarian paternalism&#8221; for being insufficiently [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wilkinson has a neat libertarian rejoinder for a journo who berates Cass Sunstein&#8217;s &#8220;libertarian paternalism&#8221; for being insufficiently [...]</p>
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		<title>By: adina</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-580827</link>
		<dc:creator>adina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 07:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-580827</guid>
		<description>It is true that people often make woefully mistaken decisions and statements. Therefore, we should use our benevolent government to restrict Cassidy&#039;s writing priveleges- for his own good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is true that people often make woefully mistaken decisions and statements. Therefore, we should use our benevolent government to restrict Cassidy&#8217;s writing priveleges- for his own good.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Hertzlinger</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-580556</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Hertzlinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 05:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-580556</guid>
		<description>The theory that human irrationality means more decisions should be made by state officials only makes sense if you think said officials aren&#039;t human.

Clearly, Cassidy is saying &quot;I, for one, welcome our new alien overlords!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The theory that human irrationality means more decisions should be made by state officials only makes sense if you think said officials aren&#8217;t human.</p>
<p>Clearly, Cassidy is saying &#8220;I, for one, welcome our new alien overlords!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-580552</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 03:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-580552</guid>
		<description>Oh the irony! At the bottom of this page, as I write, is a Google ad for &quot;Free Government Grants&quot; that promises &quot;Billions Available. Never Repay!&quot;  This is the problem that the modern libertarian faces.  We have to realize that Big Government is here, at least until the next revolution.  We have Big Government because people want Big Government.  We want a government that will dispense &quot;free government grants&quot;.  And yet we are jealous of our liberties and we inherently recognize that Big Government = Fewer Liberties.  So this &quot;libertarian paternalism&quot; seems like a way to chart a &quot;real&quot; Third Way, as the authors suggest, between oppressive nanny-state-ism (incompatible with our liberties) and complete pure libertarian laissez-faire economics (incompatible with our lust for government grants).  But at the same time it sounds a lot like &quot;compassionate conservatism&quot; and we see how well &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; fared over the last 8 years.  So I&#039;m simultaneously optimistic and pessimistic about this idea.  I&#039;ll definitely read the book now, so I guess I can thank Cassidy for something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh the irony! At the bottom of this page, as I write, is a Google ad for &#8220;Free Government Grants&#8221; that promises &#8220;Billions Available. Never Repay!&#8221;  This is the problem that the modern libertarian faces.  We have to realize that Big Government is here, at least until the next revolution.  We have Big Government because people want Big Government.  We want a government that will dispense &#8220;free government grants&#8221;.  And yet we are jealous of our liberties and we inherently recognize that Big Government = Fewer Liberties.  So this &#8220;libertarian paternalism&#8221; seems like a way to chart a &#8220;real&#8221; Third Way, as the authors suggest, between oppressive nanny-state-ism (incompatible with our liberties) and complete pure libertarian laissez-faire economics (incompatible with our lust for government grants).  But at the same time it sounds a lot like &#8220;compassionate conservatism&#8221; and we see how well <i>that</i> fared over the last 8 years.  So I&#8217;m simultaneously optimistic and pessimistic about this idea.  I&#8217;ll definitely read the book now, so I guess I can thank Cassidy for something.</p>
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		<title>By: pat</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-580551</link>
		<dc:creator>pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 02:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-580551</guid>
		<description>Just finished LF
Cassidy can&#039;t resist the V word &quot;...people often fall victim to confusion...&quot;
Confusion, failure, learning from mistakes= BAD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just finished LF<br />
Cassidy can&#8217;t resist the V word &#8220;&#8230;people often fall victim to confusion&#8230;&#8221;<br />
Confusion, failure, learning from mistakes= BAD</p>
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		<title>By: Micha Ghertner</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-580547</link>
		<dc:creator>Micha Ghertner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 23:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-580547</guid>
		<description>Jim,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Every Libertarian model presumes general democracy. But people who live dysfunctional lives are still allowed to vote.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Untrue. Libertarian anarchists do not presume democracy; they do not presume anyone should be allowed to vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<blockquote><p>Every Libertarian model presumes general democracy. But people who live dysfunctional lives are still allowed to vote.</p></blockquote>
<p>Untrue. Libertarian anarchists do not presume democracy; they do not presume anyone should be allowed to vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Bud</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-580544</link>
		<dc:creator>Bud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 22:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-580544</guid>
		<description>Generally agree with Wilkinson&#039;s critique of John Cassidy&#039;s &#039;review&#039;. Cassidy makes it clear that he is in the mold of the old Progressive Movement types such as Herbert Croly. Coercion &#039;for your own good&#039; or &#039;for the greater good&#039; is just fine so long as you are the one defining those phrases, which of course have no objective definition, but are clay to be molded into the politically convenient shape applicable to the moment.

I have not read Sunstein and Thaler&#039;s book, but am of the opinion that the best corrective for the irrationality of human behavior is to let people enjoy the undiluted consequences of their actions. Many may think me cruel, but I counter that it is far kinder to have an environment where people learn as efficiently as possible from their mistakes and successes. Damping of the feedback mechanism simply perpetuates bad behavior. Any paternalistic state apparatus makes people serfs and deprives them of their dignity, not to mention liberty.

The Founders clearly understood Wilkinson&#039;s point about government needing to be severely curtailed to protect the people. Most of the evil that has been visited upon people throughout history has been at the hands of their own governments. 

To imagine a paternalistic government making people better is ludicrous on its face.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generally agree with Wilkinson&#8217;s critique of John Cassidy&#8217;s &#8216;review&#8217;. Cassidy makes it clear that he is in the mold of the old Progressive Movement types such as Herbert Croly. Coercion &#8216;for your own good&#8217; or &#8216;for the greater good&#8217; is just fine so long as you are the one defining those phrases, which of course have no objective definition, but are clay to be molded into the politically convenient shape applicable to the moment.</p>
<p>I have not read Sunstein and Thaler&#8217;s book, but am of the opinion that the best corrective for the irrationality of human behavior is to let people enjoy the undiluted consequences of their actions. Many may think me cruel, but I counter that it is far kinder to have an environment where people learn as efficiently as possible from their mistakes and successes. Damping of the feedback mechanism simply perpetuates bad behavior. Any paternalistic state apparatus makes people serfs and deprives them of their dignity, not to mention liberty.</p>
<p>The Founders clearly understood Wilkinson&#8217;s point about government needing to be severely curtailed to protect the people. Most of the evil that has been visited upon people throughout history has been at the hands of their own governments. </p>
<p>To imagine a paternalistic government making people better is ludicrous on its face.</p>
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		<title>By: BC</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-580540</link>
		<dc:creator>BC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 20:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-580540</guid>
		<description>I continue to object to Sunstein&#039;s self-description as anything even remotely resembling libertarian.  The guy&#039;s an unreconstructed communitarian who&#039;s simply trying to attach the libertarian &quot;brand&quot; to his ideas in an effort to make them more palatable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I continue to object to Sunstein&#8217;s self-description as anything even remotely resembling libertarian.  The guy&#8217;s an unreconstructed communitarian who&#8217;s simply trying to attach the libertarian &#8220;brand&#8221; to his ideas in an effort to make them more palatable.</p>
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		<title>By: asg</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-580516</link>
		<dc:creator>asg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 04:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-580516</guid>
		<description>Wow, berger&#039;s comment is a real smorgasbord of grammatically correct sentences that display more different types of incoherence than one typically sees in blog comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, berger&#8217;s comment is a real smorgasbord of grammatically correct sentences that display more different types of incoherence than one typically sees in blog comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-580503</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 15:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-580503</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; don’t think this is very convincing, as it’s precisely Cassidy’s contention that politicians and other policy makers are equipped to make better decisions than us masses. This seems to me to be a rather uncontroversial assertion &lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m taking from this that you don&#039;t know many politicians and policymakers. 

Some reasons come to mind:
 - politicians have a hearty interest in getting re-elected. If people don&#039;t act in their own best interests directly, then it seems entirely plausible that they won&#039;t necessarily act in their own best interests in voting. 
 - politicians and other policy-makers don&#039;t know the details of your own life as well as you do
 - even under a limited government, politicians already have what are really too many problems to deal with for any one person (national defence, public health, environmental problems, the justice system, defining property rights, any one of these can be studied by one person for a whole life time, but the head of state has to make decisions across the whole range). The more responsibilities you add to politicans, the less well they will perform on any individual responsibility. There&#039;s only 24 hours in a day. Division of labour doesn&#039;t help as the decision-making process needs to include trade-offs, while there may be some win-win connections between say environmental problems and the justice system, at some point spending a dollar on one environmental problem means spending a dollar less on protecting elderly ladies from muggers or what not. 

On an ancedotal level, it&#039;s easy to think of examples of politicans and policymakers completely stuffing things up. 

The idea that politicians and policymakers are better equipped to make decisions than the masses is doubtful. The more decisions we expect them to make, the more doubtful it is. 

&lt;i&gt;But I think it’s easy to see why Cassidy would argue that an objective government official might have a more dispassionate view what you need to save for retirement or what kind of mortgages are really feasible. &lt;/i&gt;

The first problem is finding an objective government official. The second is finding enough objective government officials to fill all the positions that government officials are needed for. 

Until we have found this magical supply of government officials, let us try to design a government that can cope with non-objective government officials. 

Nor do I see why dispassionate is good. What&#039;s wrong with being passionate about my life?  I find the passions is what makes my life worth living. 

&lt;i&gt; Further, the private sector is organized around individual interests, so it’s hard to see what kind of objective view it might be able to hold forth on how people make decisions.&lt;/i&gt;

The mind boggles at the thought of the private sector holding a view. Aren&#039;t you taking reification a bit far? Would you say that the private sector holds an objective view on, say, The General Theory of Relativity? How would you aggregate the views of, say, a subsistence farmer who never learnt to read and has no idea who Einstein even is, a businessman who once read A Brief History of Time, and a highly-paid physicist working for a private research company to determine what objective view the private sector holds on the General Theory of Relativity?

And for that matter, how can the government sector hold an objective view on the General Theory of Relativity, or on how people make decisions? The government sector includes guys working in the depths of the military who have PhDs in physics, PhD economists at the Treasury, elected policiticians with no background in science at all, PR guys who come from a background in journalism, etc. How on earth would you aggregate all their views to figure out what view the government holds on the General Theory of Relativity, or how people make decisions? Let alone, how would you figure out if the view is objective?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> don’t think this is very convincing, as it’s precisely Cassidy’s contention that politicians and other policy makers are equipped to make better decisions than us masses. This seems to me to be a rather uncontroversial assertion </i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m taking from this that you don&#8217;t know many politicians and policymakers. </p>
<p>Some reasons come to mind:<br />
 &#8211; politicians have a hearty interest in getting re-elected. If people don&#8217;t act in their own best interests directly, then it seems entirely plausible that they won&#8217;t necessarily act in their own best interests in voting.<br />
 &#8211; politicians and other policy-makers don&#8217;t know the details of your own life as well as you do<br />
 &#8211; even under a limited government, politicians already have what are really too many problems to deal with for any one person (national defence, public health, environmental problems, the justice system, defining property rights, any one of these can be studied by one person for a whole life time, but the head of state has to make decisions across the whole range). The more responsibilities you add to politicans, the less well they will perform on any individual responsibility. There&#8217;s only 24 hours in a day. Division of labour doesn&#8217;t help as the decision-making process needs to include trade-offs, while there may be some win-win connections between say environmental problems and the justice system, at some point spending a dollar on one environmental problem means spending a dollar less on protecting elderly ladies from muggers or what not. </p>
<p>On an ancedotal level, it&#8217;s easy to think of examples of politicans and policymakers completely stuffing things up. </p>
<p>The idea that politicians and policymakers are better equipped to make decisions than the masses is doubtful. The more decisions we expect them to make, the more doubtful it is. </p>
<p><i>But I think it’s easy to see why Cassidy would argue that an objective government official might have a more dispassionate view what you need to save for retirement or what kind of mortgages are really feasible. </i></p>
<p>The first problem is finding an objective government official. The second is finding enough objective government officials to fill all the positions that government officials are needed for. </p>
<p>Until we have found this magical supply of government officials, let us try to design a government that can cope with non-objective government officials. </p>
<p>Nor do I see why dispassionate is good. What&#8217;s wrong with being passionate about my life?  I find the passions is what makes my life worth living. </p>
<p><i> Further, the private sector is organized around individual interests, so it’s hard to see what kind of objective view it might be able to hold forth on how people make decisions.</i></p>
<p>The mind boggles at the thought of the private sector holding a view. Aren&#8217;t you taking reification a bit far? Would you say that the private sector holds an objective view on, say, The General Theory of Relativity? How would you aggregate the views of, say, a subsistence farmer who never learnt to read and has no idea who Einstein even is, a businessman who once read A Brief History of Time, and a highly-paid physicist working for a private research company to determine what objective view the private sector holds on the General Theory of Relativity?</p>
<p>And for that matter, how can the government sector hold an objective view on the General Theory of Relativity, or on how people make decisions? The government sector includes guys working in the depths of the military who have PhDs in physics, PhD economists at the Treasury, elected policiticians with no background in science at all, PR guys who come from a background in journalism, etc. How on earth would you aggregate all their views to figure out what view the government holds on the General Theory of Relativity, or how people make decisions? Let alone, how would you figure out if the view is objective?</p>
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		<title>By: Newsflash: Researchers Discover Peer-Pressure &#171; Side Effects May Vary</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-580501</link>
		<dc:creator>Newsflash: Researchers Discover Peer-Pressure &#171; Side Effects May Vary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 14:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-580501</guid>
		<description>[...] who took part in that event, has an excellent perspective on the issues (you can get a taste here). My own two cents is that the government is by its nature, slow-moving, inflexible, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] who took part in that event, has an excellent perspective on the issues (you can get a taste here). My own two cents is that the government is by its nature, slow-moving, inflexible, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/05/23/john-cassidy-on-libertarian-paternalism-way-too-libertarian/comment-page-1/#comment-580488</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 01:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=1465#comment-580488</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It is equally obvious that we ought to restrict the choices of people in government, since those people are people, and people so often make poor choices.&lt;/i&gt;

Cassidy was reaching for why Libertianism (like Marxism) looks great on paper and founders in real life. He simply failed to get his fingers around it.

Every Libertarian model presumes general democracy. But people who live dysfunctional lives are still allowed to vote. People who live dysfunctional cause dysfunctionality among their family and neighbors. Eventually dysfunctional people will seek someone to rescue them. Their family and neighbors will much sooner seek someone to rescue them. There will always be a battalion of panders in government (that ultimate whorehouse) who will build a career promising that rescue. 

So if we could have a revolution tomorrow that instituted pure Libertarianism, in 20 years the People will vote in an even more powerful nanny-state than was ever imagined before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It is equally obvious that we ought to restrict the choices of people in government, since those people are people, and people so often make poor choices.</i></p>
<p>Cassidy was reaching for why Libertianism (like Marxism) looks great on paper and founders in real life. He simply failed to get his fingers around it.</p>
<p>Every Libertarian model presumes general democracy. But people who live dysfunctional lives are still allowed to vote. People who live dysfunctional cause dysfunctionality among their family and neighbors. Eventually dysfunctional people will seek someone to rescue them. Their family and neighbors will much sooner seek someone to rescue them. There will always be a battalion of panders in government (that ultimate whorehouse) who will build a career promising that rescue. </p>
<p>So if we could have a revolution tomorrow that instituted pure Libertarianism, in 20 years the People will vote in an even more powerful nanny-state than was ever imagined before.</p>
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