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	<title>Comments on: Throwdown in Midtown</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
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		<title>By: oyun</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-579815</link>
		<dc:creator>oyun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 15:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-579815</guid>
		<description>Martin, you’ve really got  to the heart  of the matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin, you’ve really got  to the heart  of the matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-391802</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-391802</guid>
		<description>Will, you might have seen that Tyler recently blogged the views of his &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/11/tyrone-on-ameri.html#more&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;evil twin&quot;&lt;/a&gt; Tyrone on how he would have debated in favour of the proposition that America is failing in its pursuit of happiness. If you had been asked to represent the other side of the argument, what might you have said?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, you might have seen that Tyler recently blogged the views of his <a href="http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/11/tyrone-on-ameri.html#more" rel="nofollow">&#8220;evil twin&#8221;</a> Tyrone on how he would have debated in favour of the proposition that America is failing in its pursuit of happiness. If you had been asked to represent the other side of the argument, what might you have said?</p>
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		<title>By: The happiness debate—live at First Drafts - The Prospect magazine blog</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-389630</link>
		<dc:creator>The happiness debate—live at First Drafts - The Prospect magazine blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-389630</guid>
		<description>[...] left/right, might suggest that similar forces were at play. And according to Wilkinson&#8217;s own account, Sachs was more interested in denouncing George W Bush than in discussing the proposition he was [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] left/right, might suggest that similar forces were at play. And according to Wilkinson&#8217;s own account, Sachs was more interested in denouncing George W Bush than in discussing the proposition he was [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chance</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-388597</link>
		<dc:creator>Chance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-388597</guid>
		<description>You guys were awesome. If you were nervous you didn&#039;t show it. 

I have to say that I was a bit disappointed by the affirmative group. I think the debate would have been more instructive if the affirmative had been better prepared. Professor Sachs, who I came to see, was really off topic. They really never managed to make a strong case that any of the problems they were pointing out amounted to a failure of America at the pursuit of happiness, especially in the face of all the observable success. 

It wasn&#039;t until the debate was almost over, when the topic of poverty was brought up, that Sachs quoted some statistics that gave me pause. The by-country comparison of the percentage of people reporting that they did not have sufficient funds to purchase food did sound quite high in the U.S. compared to other industrial countries. Of the problems the affirmative pointed out, I think the issue of poverty in this country, based on those statistics he read, would have been their best bet for framing some particular problem as a failure of the whole relative to other rich countries, even if it is not something that affects the majority of Americans. It was certainly better than Stevenson&#039;s arms race or Sachs&#039;s displeasure with the current political situation, and that part of the debate was just getting started when the whole thing came to an end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys were awesome. If you were nervous you didn&#8217;t show it. </p>
<p>I have to say that I was a bit disappointed by the affirmative group. I think the debate would have been more instructive if the affirmative had been better prepared. Professor Sachs, who I came to see, was really off topic. They really never managed to make a strong case that any of the problems they were pointing out amounted to a failure of America at the pursuit of happiness, especially in the face of all the observable success. </p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t until the debate was almost over, when the topic of poverty was brought up, that Sachs quoted some statistics that gave me pause. The by-country comparison of the percentage of people reporting that they did not have sufficient funds to purchase food did sound quite high in the U.S. compared to other industrial countries. Of the problems the affirmative pointed out, I think the issue of poverty in this country, based on those statistics he read, would have been their best bet for framing some particular problem as a failure of the whole relative to other rich countries, even if it is not something that affects the majority of Americans. It was certainly better than Stevenson&#8217;s arms race or Sachs&#8217;s displeasure with the current political situation, and that part of the debate was just getting started when the whole thing came to an end.</p>
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		<title>By: Oreg</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-388475</link>
		<dc:creator>Oreg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-388475</guid>
		<description>Will, thank you for the pointer. The data in this paper only starts in 1991, one year after the reunification. The misunderstanding seems to be that I am comparing the situation before the fall of the Wall and after, while you are looking at the development only after the fall. I claim that happiness dropped significantly /around reunification/, in spite of of an increase in real income (and, arguably, freedom).

The paper shows that life satisfaction of East Germans correlated with pay raises. It is important to keep in mind that East Germans&#039; incomes were mostly below the national average. For this group the correlation is intuitive.

The question is whether the correlation also holds for incomes above national average. If that is true then GDP is an adequate proxy for happiness. Otherwise, the GDP needs to be complemented with a measure of income distribution / inequality / disparity. I suspect the latter is true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, thank you for the pointer. The data in this paper only starts in 1991, one year after the reunification. The misunderstanding seems to be that I am comparing the situation before the fall of the Wall and after, while you are looking at the development only after the fall. I claim that happiness dropped significantly /around reunification/, in spite of of an increase in real income (and, arguably, freedom).</p>
<p>The paper shows that life satisfaction of East Germans correlated with pay raises. It is important to keep in mind that East Germans&#8217; incomes were mostly below the national average. For this group the correlation is intuitive.</p>
<p>The question is whether the correlation also holds for incomes above national average. If that is true then GDP is an adequate proxy for happiness. Otherwise, the GDP needs to be complemented with a measure of income distribution / inequality / disparity. I suspect the latter is true.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-388061</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-388061</guid>
		<description>Oreg,

See &lt;a href=&quot;http://econpapers.repec.org/article/aeaaecrev/v_3A94_3Ay_3A2004_3Ai_3A3_3Ap_3A730-740.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oreg,</p>
<p>See <a href="http://econpapers.repec.org/article/aeaaecrev/v_3A94_3Ay_3A2004_3Ai_3A3_3Ap_3A730-740.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a></p>
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		<title>By: Micha Ghertner</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-388051</link>
		<dc:creator>Micha Ghertner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-388051</guid>
		<description>Pwned!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pwned!</p>
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		<title>By: What’s so great about happiness? &#187; Ape Man &#187; Blog Archive</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-388037</link>
		<dc:creator>What’s so great about happiness? &#187; Ape Man &#187; Blog Archive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-388037</guid>
		<description>[...] for them.” Conversely, you can find things that you think should make people happy but don’t. Will Wilkinson proves the latter point when he says… The debate continues in my mind. At one point in the main event Stevenson cut me [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for them.” Conversely, you can find things that you think should make people happy but don’t. Will Wilkinson proves the latter point when he says… The debate continues in my mind. At one point in the main event Stevenson cut me [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Hasbrouck</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-387993</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Hasbrouck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-387993</guid>
		<description>I was there and you completely blew Sachs out of the water, bravo!  Definitely a new fan of your blog, thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was there and you completely blew Sachs out of the water, bravo!  Definitely a new fan of your blog, thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Oreg</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-387827</link>
		<dc:creator>Oreg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-387827</guid>
		<description>Will, you certainly had the rhetoric skill on your side and your opponents were weak. One point, however, you got completely backwards: Eastern-Germans were most definitely not happier after the reunification of their country with the West. On the contrary, a large number of them wished the wall back---in spite of the fact that they were better off. Compared to their compatriots in the West they lagged behind and that made them very unhappy.

(Cross-post from http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/11/last-nights-deb.html?cid=89654798#c89654798 )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, you certainly had the rhetoric skill on your side and your opponents were weak. One point, however, you got completely backwards: Eastern-Germans were most definitely not happier after the reunification of their country with the West. On the contrary, a large number of them wished the wall back&#8212;in spite of the fact that they were better off. Compared to their compatriots in the West they lagged behind and that made them very unhappy.</p>
<p>(Cross-post from <a href="http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/11/last-nights-deb.html?cid=89654798#c89654798" rel="nofollow">http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/11/last-nights-deb.html?cid=89654798#c89654798</a> )</p>
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		<title>By: quitacet</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-387692</link>
		<dc:creator>quitacet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-387692</guid>
		<description>perhaps some sampling effects may explain the results... 30-40 dollar tickets on a Saturday afternoon, plus the marketing of the event to Economist readers, and the nature of the event itself: an academic debate. Demographics tend to skew one way. 

Not that you didn&#039;t do a great job though! I waved a red fan both times</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>perhaps some sampling effects may explain the results&#8230; 30-40 dollar tickets on a Saturday afternoon, plus the marketing of the event to Economist readers, and the nature of the event itself: an academic debate. Demographics tend to skew one way. </p>
<p>Not that you didn&#8217;t do a great job though! I waved a red fan both times</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-387648</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-387648</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure it will be. I&#039;ll post info on the blog as soon as I have it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure it will be. I&#8217;ll post info on the blog as soon as I have it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Guida</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-387535</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent Guida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-387535</guid>
		<description>Is audio or video of this debate avaliable anywhere?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is audio or video of this debate avaliable anywhere?</p>
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		<title>By: Biomed Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-387429</link>
		<dc:creator>Biomed Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-387429</guid>
		<description>Wish I could&#039;ve been there too.  Good Job!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wish I could&#8217;ve been there too.  Good Job!</p>
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		<title>By: Marnie</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/comment-page-1/#comment-386342</link>
		<dc:creator>Marnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 04:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/11/11/throwdown-in-midtown/#comment-386342</guid>
		<description>Yay! Bravo! Wish I&#039;d been there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay! Bravo! Wish I&#8217;d been there!</p>
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