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	<title>Comments on: Why Americans Breed</title>
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	<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Points Of Note &#187; Why do Americans Breed?</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168999</link>
		<dc:creator>Points Of Note &#187; Why do Americans Breed?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 01:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168999</guid>
		<description>[...] A great post by Cato analyst Will Wilkinson.  Check it out here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A great post by Cato analyst Will Wilkinson.  Check it out here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: great_ape</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168949</link>
		<dc:creator>great_ape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 23:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168949</guid>
		<description>Is there readily available data concerning the gender distribution among new births across these countries? There have been some reports in the scientific literature suggesting that women who are feeling more optimistic are more likely to give birth to boys. (Boys require more resources both during pregnancy and after birth.) If I recall correctly, the effect was not dramatic, but it was statistically significant. A trend towards more boys in countries with higher birth rates would lend support to the the optimism hypothesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there readily available data concerning the gender distribution among new births across these countries? There have been some reports in the scientific literature suggesting that women who are feeling more optimistic are more likely to give birth to boys. (Boys require more resources both during pregnancy and after birth.) If I recall correctly, the effect was not dramatic, but it was statistically significant. A trend towards more boys in countries with higher birth rates would lend support to the the optimism hypothesis.</p>
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		<title>By: Why We Keep Having So Many Babies : Hear ItFrom.Us</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168876</link>
		<dc:creator>Why We Keep Having So Many Babies : Hear ItFrom.Us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 20:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168876</guid>
		<description>[...] Mangu-Ward at Reason has blogs about Wilkinson, who cites a Harris Poll.  Mangu-Ward says that Wilkinson claims that the Harris Poll [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mangu-Ward at Reason has blogs about Wilkinson, who cites a Harris Poll.  Mangu-Ward says that Wilkinson claims that the Harris Poll [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jose</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168690</link>
		<dc:creator>Jose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 14:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168690</guid>
		<description>I wouldn't conflate "optimism" with "happiness". The Danes for instance are a very pessimistic but very happy bunch. I'm extremely skeptical of any reasoning that boils down human nature in such simplistic terms.

There may be social trends at work that aren't happening simultaneously on either side of the Atlantic. For instance the explosion in pre marital sex we've seen in the west didn't start everywhere at once. The same could be true for birth rates. Whatever factors that are at work in Europe might start revealing their hand in the USA in a decade or two (if ever).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t conflate &#8220;optimism&#8221; with &#8220;happiness&#8221;. The Danes for instance are a very pessimistic but very happy bunch. I&#8217;m extremely skeptical of any reasoning that boils down human nature in such simplistic terms.</p>
<p>There may be social trends at work that aren&#8217;t happening simultaneously on either side of the Atlantic. For instance the explosion in pre marital sex we&#8217;ve seen in the west didn&#8217;t start everywhere at once. The same could be true for birth rates. Whatever factors that are at work in Europe might start revealing their hand in the USA in a decade or two (if ever).</p>
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		<title>By: Hello, Gorgeous! &#171; Lotus</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168360</link>
		<dc:creator>Hello, Gorgeous! &#171; Lotus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 03:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168360</guid>
		<description>[...] don&#8217;t out-breed Europeans because of housing rates or optimism or religion or any of that stuff. We out-breed them because we have better dentists; we&#8217;re just too damn pretty to resist each [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] don&#8217;t out-breed Europeans because of housing rates or optimism or religion or any of that stuff. We out-breed them because we have better dentists; we&#8217;re just too damn pretty to resist each [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168216</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168216</guid>
		<description>There is a number of reasons why people have children, as listed above by others.  These reasons are more or less important, depending on the living conditions where one lives.  In the third world, children are important for their cheap labor and support in old age.  If you live in the first world, and the basics of life (food, shelter, and clothing) are easily obtained, you have children to give your life meaning and purpose, since you have found that money, sex, and possesions will not.

There is no one reason why the birth rates are higher here than in Europe, it is a combination of factors that make child rearing more favorable and attractive.  However, once you have attained what you want in life on a material level, which is easy to do in America, most find that they are still not content with life and will try to increase there relationships with other humans.  Children also give one a feeling that their time on this mortal coil was not a complete waste of time and that they are leaving behind a legacy that will live on after their death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a number of reasons why people have children, as listed above by others.  These reasons are more or less important, depending on the living conditions where one lives.  In the third world, children are important for their cheap labor and support in old age.  If you live in the first world, and the basics of life (food, shelter, and clothing) are easily obtained, you have children to give your life meaning and purpose, since you have found that money, sex, and possesions will not.</p>
<p>There is no one reason why the birth rates are higher here than in Europe, it is a combination of factors that make child rearing more favorable and attractive.  However, once you have attained what you want in life on a material level, which is easy to do in America, most find that they are still not content with life and will try to increase there relationships with other humans.  Children also give one a feeling that their time on this mortal coil was not a complete waste of time and that they are leaving behind a legacy that will live on after their death.</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt9</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168025</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168025</guid>
		<description>I disagree with most of you here. I think American exceptionalism is due exclusively to affordable housing. I think explanations like "religion", "tradition", "reverence for kids" etc, etc, etc, are nothing but horse puckey. These are the kinds of words used by bad writers and poets.

Seattle is often cited these days as a "blue-state" place with a low birth rate, compared to Salt Lake City being a "red-state" place with a higher birth rate. Guess what guys? 25 years ago Seattle used to be a "family" town with a Salt Lake City like birth rate. Today, it is not. Why? Because housing is way more expensive compared to income than it was 25 years ago. 25 years ago, Seattle housing was comparable to Salt Lake City. Today, its like California.

I can cite example after example. California's Central valley (often called the Sam Juaquin Valley) has become expansive as well. What cost $200K now goes for $400K. The trend is not limited to major cities. Even Bend, Oregon (population 50K) has a median house price of $350K.

Of course, much of this is based on a speculative bubble and does not reflect the "fundamental" value of real estate. But does anyone here really expect real estate values to return to 1995-2000 price levels (If you do, I've got a hot deal on a bridge for you)?

The muslims in Europe do not have their "third world" birth rates. They have birth rates slightly higher than current U.S., but are falling almost as fast as the white European levels. Indeed, even much of the third world no longer has "third world" like birth rates. Both Turkey and Iran are below replacement and Egypt is falling fast. India's at 2.85 kids per woman (the muslim rate is around 3) and is falling fast. Only sub-Saharan Africa has really high birth-rates and even these are starting to decline in some countries.

Back to the U.S. If housing prices continue their long term trend of rising faster than income, you can donuts to dollars that the U.S. will have European (and East Asian) birth rates within the next 20 years (I think within 10 years).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with most of you here. I think American exceptionalism is due exclusively to affordable housing. I think explanations like &#8220;religion&#8221;, &#8220;tradition&#8221;, &#8220;reverence for kids&#8221; etc, etc, etc, are nothing but horse puckey. These are the kinds of words used by bad writers and poets.</p>
<p>Seattle is often cited these days as a &#8220;blue-state&#8221; place with a low birth rate, compared to Salt Lake City being a &#8220;red-state&#8221; place with a higher birth rate. Guess what guys? 25 years ago Seattle used to be a &#8220;family&#8221; town with a Salt Lake City like birth rate. Today, it is not. Why? Because housing is way more expensive compared to income than it was 25 years ago. 25 years ago, Seattle housing was comparable to Salt Lake City. Today, its like California.</p>
<p>I can cite example after example. California&#8217;s Central valley (often called the Sam Juaquin Valley) has become expansive as well. What cost $200K now goes for $400K. The trend is not limited to major cities. Even Bend, Oregon (population 50K) has a median house price of $350K.</p>
<p>Of course, much of this is based on a speculative bubble and does not reflect the &#8220;fundamental&#8221; value of real estate. But does anyone here really expect real estate values to return to 1995-2000 price levels (If you do, I&#8217;ve got a hot deal on a bridge for you)?</p>
<p>The muslims in Europe do not have their &#8220;third world&#8221; birth rates. They have birth rates slightly higher than current U.S., but are falling almost as fast as the white European levels. Indeed, even much of the third world no longer has &#8220;third world&#8221; like birth rates. Both Turkey and Iran are below replacement and Egypt is falling fast. India&#8217;s at 2.85 kids per woman (the muslim rate is around 3) and is falling fast. Only sub-Saharan Africa has really high birth-rates and even these are starting to decline in some countries.</p>
<p>Back to the U.S. If housing prices continue their long term trend of rising faster than income, you can donuts to dollars that the U.S. will have European (and East Asian) birth rates within the next 20 years (I think within 10 years).</p>
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		<title>By: Lehosh</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168007</link>
		<dc:creator>Lehosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-168007</guid>
		<description>The "affordable housing" and "dirt gap" theories don't necessarily hold water either. If, as Ed said, this was the "obvious answer", then African and Arab minorities in Europe would not still have their 3rd world fertility rates and no one would be talking about immigrants "breeding out" native Europeans. Arab women in Europe have a higher fertility than almost any white community in the US (besides Mormons in Utah), and the French banlieu is not nearly as spacious or as cheap as a cottage in Kansas.

One factor people are overlooking I think is the acceptability of motherhood in the United States. Motherhood as a calling has withstood the onslaught of "modernism" in America in a way that it did not in Western Europe. America has a nostalgia for its roots and I think we underestimate how many people, young women especially, still hope for and work toward the nuclear family ideal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;affordable housing&#8221; and &#8220;dirt gap&#8221; theories don&#8217;t necessarily hold water either. If, as Ed said, this was the &#8220;obvious answer&#8221;, then African and Arab minorities in Europe would not still have their 3rd world fertility rates and no one would be talking about immigrants &#8220;breeding out&#8221; native Europeans. Arab women in Europe have a higher fertility than almost any white community in the US (besides Mormons in Utah), and the French banlieu is not nearly as spacious or as cheap as a cottage in Kansas.</p>
<p>One factor people are overlooking I think is the acceptability of motherhood in the United States. Motherhood as a calling has withstood the onslaught of &#8220;modernism&#8221; in America in a way that it did not in Western Europe. America has a nostalgia for its roots and I think we underestimate how many people, young women especially, still hope for and work toward the nuclear family ideal.</p>
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		<title>By: TBAY</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-167775</link>
		<dc:creator>TBAY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-167775</guid>
		<description>How about this for a guess.  Americans expect less from their government, in doing so they rely more upon their own abilities. If success is acheived, this produces an overall more optimistic environment. In other words, self-suffiency in a positive sense is self reinforcing, whether it results in better economic conditions or a belief that you are the best person to raise your own children. 

Europeans expect their government to do much more for them but reliance breeds at best a luke warm appreciation. When it comes down to the biological desire to make sure your children are provided for, they don't trust the government nor do they particularly desire to be indebted to the government for raising their children. They just take a pass on the whole venture hoping someone else will produce the next generation. Maybe the government should figure out a way to do that for them too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about this for a guess.  Americans expect less from their government, in doing so they rely more upon their own abilities. If success is acheived, this produces an overall more optimistic environment. In other words, self-suffiency in a positive sense is self reinforcing, whether it results in better economic conditions or a belief that you are the best person to raise your own children. </p>
<p>Europeans expect their government to do much more for them but reliance breeds at best a luke warm appreciation. When it comes down to the biological desire to make sure your children are provided for, they don&#8217;t trust the government nor do they particularly desire to be indebted to the government for raising their children. They just take a pass on the whole venture hoping someone else will produce the next generation. Maybe the government should figure out a way to do that for them too.</p>
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		<title>By: Macbrvs94</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-167144</link>
		<dc:creator>Macbrvs94</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 01:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-167144</guid>
		<description>I read somewhere that Euro's don't have children because it's a colossal pain in the ass to cart the kiddies around through the public transportation system.  Apparently everybody lives in cities and nobody owns a car, so the only way to travel from home to the daycare to work and back again is to take a train, double-decker bus, subway, etc...  That would be a bitch with a stroller, car seat, diapers and all your work stuff too.  

We've got it pretty lucky over here.  Most breeders live in the 'burbs and own a car and can zip around however we damn well please.  I always thought this explanation was a little more common sensical than all that religion/happy people stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read somewhere that Euro&#8217;s don&#8217;t have children because it&#8217;s a colossal pain in the ass to cart the kiddies around through the public transportation system.  Apparently everybody lives in cities and nobody owns a car, so the only way to travel from home to the daycare to work and back again is to take a train, double-decker bus, subway, etc&#8230;  That would be a bitch with a stroller, car seat, diapers and all your work stuff too.  </p>
<p>We&#8217;ve got it pretty lucky over here.  Most breeders live in the &#8216;burbs and own a car and can zip around however we damn well please.  I always thought this explanation was a little more common sensical than all that religion/happy people stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-166979</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-166979</guid>
		<description>Population density and affordable housing don't make for a robust explanation, either. I won't even bother to point out countries where birth rates are high and living space is a problem, because there are too many obvious examples.

The tightly packed population and increasing poverty of Europe may be factors, but the full story is obviously more complicated than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Population density and affordable housing don&#8217;t make for a robust explanation, either. I won&#8217;t even bother to point out countries where birth rates are high and living space is a problem, because there are too many obvious examples.</p>
<p>The tightly packed population and increasing poverty of Europe may be factors, but the full story is obviously more complicated than that.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Sailer</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-166904</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Sailer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 19:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-166904</guid>
		<description>The Dirt Gap is the biggest explanatory variable: America has a lot more dirt to build houses on that does Western Europe. Bigger supply means lower prices. Lower housing prices mean couples can afford to get married and have children. 

You see the exact same process in the U.S. in the last two Presidential elections: Bush carried 25 of the 26 states with the highest white total fertility rate (babies per woman), while Kerry won the bottom 16. Same with measures of years married among younger white adults. Similar for housing costs and housing inflation. 

A quick look at a map shows that the Blue States are located along oceans and Great Lakes, so suburban housing expansion can't proceed in 360 degrees the way it can in inland Red States. That's the bottom line.

You can read all about how Affordable Family Formation drives American voting here:

http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2005/05/08/affordable-family-formation-the-neglected-key-to-gops-future/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Dirt Gap is the biggest explanatory variable: America has a lot more dirt to build houses on that does Western Europe. Bigger supply means lower prices. Lower housing prices mean couples can afford to get married and have children. </p>
<p>You see the exact same process in the U.S. in the last two Presidential elections: Bush carried 25 of the 26 states with the highest white total fertility rate (babies per woman), while Kerry won the bottom 16. Same with measures of years married among younger white adults. Similar for housing costs and housing inflation. </p>
<p>A quick look at a map shows that the Blue States are located along oceans and Great Lakes, so suburban housing expansion can&#8217;t proceed in 360 degrees the way it can in inland Red States. That&#8217;s the bottom line.</p>
<p>You can read all about how Affordable Family Formation drives American voting here:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2005/05/08/affordable-family-formation-the-neglected-key-to-gops-future/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2005/05/08/affordable-family-formation-the-neglected-key-to-gops-future/</a></p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-166826</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-166826</guid>
		<description>The answer is painfully obvious and not related to magical variables like "American exceptionalism". The US as a whole is far less developed than Europe: land is cheaper and a much larger proportion of people are poorer. In comparably developed areas of the US (dense urban areas in the North East for example) the cost of child bearing is much higher and fertility rates are comparable to Europe. Less developed regions have lower property values, higher religiosity and more poor individuals. The US is just "behind" Europe on this. The United States is so incredibly huge that we have a long way to go to look like crowded old Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The answer is painfully obvious and not related to magical variables like &#8220;American exceptionalism&#8221;. The US as a whole is far less developed than Europe: land is cheaper and a much larger proportion of people are poorer. In comparably developed areas of the US (dense urban areas in the North East for example) the cost of child bearing is much higher and fertility rates are comparable to Europe. Less developed regions have lower property values, higher religiosity and more poor individuals. The US is just &#8220;behind&#8221; Europe on this. The United States is so incredibly huge that we have a long way to go to look like crowded old Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Fin</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-166784</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Fin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-166784</guid>
		<description>I'll go with the "optimism" explanation, plus americans do take their religious duty to "be fruitful and multiply" more seriously than their Euro-cousins.

Here's how you really boost birthrates--make childhood vaccinations illegal and do away with antibiotics, neonatal intensive care units, children's hospitals, and all the other advancements that make childhood deaths unusual in the developed world.

I'm kinda worried about the Islamist explosion--with very high birthrates in the poorest muslim countries.  Somebody's got to make more warm bodies to stand against the sharia nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll go with the &#8220;optimism&#8221; explanation, plus americans do take their religious duty to &#8220;be fruitful and multiply&#8221; more seriously than their Euro-cousins.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s how you really boost birthrates&#8211;make childhood vaccinations illegal and do away with antibiotics, neonatal intensive care units, children&#8217;s hospitals, and all the other advancements that make childhood deaths unusual in the developed world.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m kinda worried about the Islamist explosion&#8211;with very high birthrates in the poorest muslim countries.  Somebody&#8217;s got to make more warm bodies to stand against the sharia nonsense.</p>
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		<title>By: Patel</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-166699</link>
		<dc:creator>Patel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/04/27/why-americans-breed/#comment-166699</guid>
		<description>I have to disagree with Jeremy R. above.  I think higher income does not necessarily mean less kids, I think sometimes it can actually encourage more children.  I live in an affluent area with many large families, I'm talking even 5 - 8 kids.  We are about average with three.

I think the biggest factor in large families is having one spouse stay home.  And in our area we do have more than a few stay-at-home dads.  Most of the smaller families I know (1-2 kids), both parents work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to disagree with Jeremy R. above.  I think higher income does not necessarily mean less kids, I think sometimes it can actually encourage more children.  I live in an affluent area with many large families, I&#8217;m talking even 5 - 8 kids.  We are about average with three.</p>
<p>I think the biggest factor in large families is having one spouse stay home.  And in our area we do have more than a few stay-at-home dads.  Most of the smaller families I know (1-2 kids), both parents work.</p>
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