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	<title>Comments on: The Fake Paradox of Prosperity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
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		<title>By: monkyboy</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4529</link>
		<dc:creator>monkyboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4529</guid>
		<description>Workin&#039; in the fields
till you get your back burned
Workin&#039; &#039;neath the wheel
till you get your facts learned
Baby I got my facts
learned real good right now
You better get it straight darling
Poor man wanna be rich,
rich man wanna be king
And a king ain&#039;t satisfied
till he rules everything

-Sir Bruce, Philosopher

Question: How do you get a philosopher off your porch?
Answer: Pay for the pizza.

-Elizabeth Hoppe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Workin&#8217; in the fields<br />
till you get your back burned<br />
Workin&#8217; &#8216;neath the wheel<br />
till you get your facts learned<br />
Baby I got my facts<br />
learned real good right now<br />
You better get it straight darling<br />
Poor man wanna be rich,<br />
rich man wanna be king<br />
And a king ain&#8217;t satisfied<br />
till he rules everything</p>
<p>-Sir Bruce, Philosopher</p>
<p>Question: How do you get a philosopher off your porch?<br />
Answer: Pay for the pizza.</p>
<p>-Elizabeth Hoppe</p>
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		<title>By: Javier</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4530</link>
		<dc:creator>Javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4530</guid>
		<description>Will, an entertaining post--I got a laugh out of it. But perhaps you are conceding too much to the happiness critics. Let me run an argument by you to see what you think.

Happiness has increased significantly in the past few decades. The reason is simple: life-expectancy has, within the past half century, increased by about 10 years in the United States. If people are as happy now as they were then, then, ceteris paribus, they should now live even happier lives overall because they live longer lives. For example, suppose that I live 5 years and these are very happy years. If I live 5 more years in addition to the first 5, then overall I&#039;ve lived a happier life: the total sum of happiness has gone up. Thus, people are getting happier by living longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, an entertaining post&#8211;I got a laugh out of it. But perhaps you are conceding too much to the happiness critics. Let me run an argument by you to see what you think.</p>
<p>Happiness has increased significantly in the past few decades. The reason is simple: life-expectancy has, within the past half century, increased by about 10 years in the United States. If people are as happy now as they were then, then, ceteris paribus, they should now live even happier lives overall because they live longer lives. For example, suppose that I live 5 years and these are very happy years. If I live 5 more years in addition to the first 5, then overall I&#8217;ve lived a happier life: the total sum of happiness has gone up. Thus, people are getting happier by living longer.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4531</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4531</guid>
		<description>Javier, Good point. But the happiness studies are not tracking a quantity of happiness, but the average of how happy folks say they are. Longer lifespans should, in fact, depress the average. Easterlin&#039;s study on happiness in the life cycle shows that self-reported happiness peaks at about 45 and declines slowly thereafter. So, each additional year in average lifespan ought to bring down average self-reported happiness. Check out this graph:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://static.flickr.com/25/54022653_947adb6765_o.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://static.flickr.com/25/54022653_947adb6765_o.jpg&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Javier, Good point. But the happiness studies are not tracking a quantity of happiness, but the average of how happy folks say they are. Longer lifespans should, in fact, depress the average. Easterlin&#8217;s study on happiness in the life cycle shows that self-reported happiness peaks at about 45 and declines slowly thereafter. So, each additional year in average lifespan ought to bring down average self-reported happiness. Check out this graph:<br />
<a href="http://static.flickr.com/25/54022653_947adb6765_o.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://static.flickr.com/25/54022653_947adb6765_o.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Javier</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4532</link>
		<dc:creator>Javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4532</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard the opposite actually: older people tend to be happier than the young. Here&#039;s a quote from &lt;a href=&quot;http://bespin.stwing.upenn.edu/~upsych/Perspectives/2002/Ehrlich.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this study&lt;/a&gt;: &lt;blockquote&gt;Diener et al (1999) provide a summary of several studies on the age differences of life satisfaction. According to this summary, life satisfaction seems to stay the same, if not increase with age. This finding countered earlier conventional wisdom that older people were less satisfied because they were unhappy with their unfulfilled lives as they reached the uselessness of old age. The increase in life satisfaction with age may be attributed to a trend in greater involvement in satisfying areas of life among older cohorts. Nonetheless, there seems to be a slight increase in life satisfaction from age 20 to age 80 with negative affect held constant.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

This is only referring to life satisfaction, it appears that &quot;negative affect&quot; increases slightly after the age of 60.

Anyways, to the extent that the happiness researchers only focus on how happy people are on average, they are missing out on something that makes happiness more valuable--namely, the additional years we now have to enjoy it. And it is precisely in this respect that society as a whole has been getting significantly better off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard the opposite actually: older people tend to be happier than the young. Here&#8217;s a quote from <a href="http://bespin.stwing.upenn.edu/~upsych/Perspectives/2002/Ehrlich.pdf" rel="nofollow">this study</a>:<br />
<blockquote>Diener et al (1999) provide a summary of several studies on the age differences of life satisfaction. According to this summary, life satisfaction seems to stay the same, if not increase with age. This finding countered earlier conventional wisdom that older people were less satisfied because they were unhappy with their unfulfilled lives as they reached the uselessness of old age. The increase in life satisfaction with age may be attributed to a trend in greater involvement in satisfying areas of life among older cohorts. Nonetheless, there seems to be a slight increase in life satisfaction from age 20 to age 80 with negative affect held constant.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is only referring to life satisfaction, it appears that &#8220;negative affect&#8221; increases slightly after the age of 60.</p>
<p>Anyways, to the extent that the happiness researchers only focus on how happy people are on average, they are missing out on something that makes happiness more valuable&#8211;namely, the additional years we now have to enjoy it. And it is precisely in this respect that society as a whole has been getting significantly better off.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4533</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4533</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that has to do with the lack of good panel data. Read this Easterlin paper, which is the most recent work on happiness accross the lifespan. As folks age, they become much less sastisfied with their health, family life (children move away; siblings dies, etc), and work (retirement). This is largely offset by rising satisfaction with finances (compound interest!), but not completely. 

Here is the paper [doc]:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~easterl/Lifecyhapsour.doc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~easterl/Lifecyhapsour.doc&lt;/a&gt;

Here is a useful summary power point presentation [ppt]:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;ct=res&amp;cd=6&amp;url=http%3A//www.usc.edu/dept/socialwork/SFCCC/pdf/happiness.ppt&amp;ei=E4BWQ5vZA6ji-AGdsISiBw&amp;sig2=dsnoZn_NFrUzf1Ckw2AsNw&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;ct=res&amp;cd=6&amp;url=http%3A//www.usc.edu/dept/socialwork/SFCCC/pdf/happiness.ppt&amp;ei=E4BWQ5vZA6ji-AGdsISiBw&amp;sig2=dsnoZn_NFrUzf1Ckw2AsNw&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that has to do with the lack of good panel data. Read this Easterlin paper, which is the most recent work on happiness accross the lifespan. As folks age, they become much less sastisfied with their health, family life (children move away; siblings dies, etc), and work (retirement). This is largely offset by rising satisfaction with finances (compound interest!), but not completely. </p>
<p>Here is the paper [doc]:<br />
<a href="http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~easterl/Lifecyhapsour.doc" rel="nofollow">http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~easterl/Lifecyhapsour.doc</a></p>
<p>Here is a useful summary power point presentation [ppt]:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&#038;ct=res&#038;cd=6&#038;url=http%3A//www.usc.edu/dept/socialwork/SFCCC/pdf/happiness.ppt&#038;ei=E4BWQ5vZA6ji-AGdsISiBw&#038;sig2=dsnoZn_NFrUzf1Ckw2AsNw" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&#038;ct=res&#038;cd=6&#038;url=http%3A//www.usc.edu/dept/socialwork/SFCCC/pdf/happiness.ppt&#038;ei=E4BWQ5vZA6ji-AGdsISiBw&#038;sig2=dsnoZn_NFrUzf1Ckw2AsNw</a></p>
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		<title>By: Javier</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4534</link>
		<dc:creator>Javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4534</guid>
		<description>Interesting information, I just skimmed the paper. 

Easterlin&#039;s conclusion is still that happiness is very stable throughout people&#039;s lives on average. Even past 80, it appears that most people respond that their lives are &quot;very happy&quot; or &quot;pretty happy.&quot; So the people that make it into their late old age seem to be enjoying additional years of happiness.

An interesting corrolary. Suppose we are just looking at the average happiness level. If the proportion of elderly in the population grows, it might seem that happiness levels are trending down. But again, this method overlooks what is fundamentally a good thing: people are enjoying more years of happiness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting information, I just skimmed the paper. </p>
<p>Easterlin&#8217;s conclusion is still that happiness is very stable throughout people&#8217;s lives on average. Even past 80, it appears that most people respond that their lives are &#8220;very happy&#8221; or &#8220;pretty happy.&#8221; So the people that make it into their late old age seem to be enjoying additional years of happiness.</p>
<p>An interesting corrolary. Suppose we are just looking at the average happiness level. If the proportion of elderly in the population grows, it might seem that happiness levels are trending down. But again, this method overlooks what is fundamentally a good thing: people are enjoying more years of happiness.</p>
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		<title>By: Javier</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4535</link>
		<dc:creator>Javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4535</guid>
		<description>Ah, you already pointed that out. Well then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, you already pointed that out. Well then.</p>
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		<title>By: BillKorner</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4536</link>
		<dc:creator>BillKorner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4536</guid>
		<description>The Easterlin study does NOT rely on what you decry as the economists&#039; concept of utility as preference satisfaction.  The happiness variable in that study is simply a self-report on a scale provided by the surveyer.  

The Easterlin study is not armchair.  It does not, however, provide any information on whether what subjects meant when they said they were &quot;not happy&quot; or &quot;very happy&quot; refers to preference satisfaction, desire satisfaction, an experiential state independent of either, eudaimonia, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Easterlin study does NOT rely on what you decry as the economists&#8217; concept of utility as preference satisfaction.  The happiness variable in that study is simply a self-report on a scale provided by the surveyer.  </p>
<p>The Easterlin study is not armchair.  It does not, however, provide any information on whether what subjects meant when they said they were &#8220;not happy&#8221; or &#8220;very happy&#8221; refers to preference satisfaction, desire satisfaction, an experiential state independent of either, eudaimonia, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: BillKorner</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4537</link>
		<dc:creator>BillKorner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4537</guid>
		<description>Since Easterlin is not relying on the economic assumptions Will criticizes, I cannot see why Will&#039;s arguments against those defeat its conclusions.  Nor can I see, in light of Easterlin, what evidence Will is relying on to claim that we&#039;re actually getting happier ever so slowly.

More generally, note that claims like &quot;happiness is rising &#039;very slowly&#039;&quot; or that we&#039;re &quot;at least as happy as we&#039;ve ever been&quot; presuppose not only (a) interpersonal utility comparability, but also (b) that average utility is a meaningful and very relevant concept.  

Many interlocurers on this blog have denied that interpersonal utilities are comparable when they argue against redistribution that would promote higher total utlity.  If these arguments are right, which I obviously do not think that they are, then it cannot be the case that we can demonstrate that (for example) capitalism promotes happiness better than Stalinism or Sovietism.  

As for taking average utlity as the relevant measure for social policy analysis, that method runs counter to the view that individual rights must be respected even if violating them increases average utlity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since Easterlin is not relying on the economic assumptions Will criticizes, I cannot see why Will&#8217;s arguments against those defeat its conclusions.  Nor can I see, in light of Easterlin, what evidence Will is relying on to claim that we&#8217;re actually getting happier ever so slowly.</p>
<p>More generally, note that claims like &#8220;happiness is rising &#8216;very slowly&#8217;&#8221; or that we&#8217;re &#8220;at least as happy as we&#8217;ve ever been&#8221; presuppose not only (a) interpersonal utility comparability, but also (b) that average utility is a meaningful and very relevant concept.  </p>
<p>Many interlocurers on this blog have denied that interpersonal utilities are comparable when they argue against redistribution that would promote higher total utlity.  If these arguments are right, which I obviously do not think that they are, then it cannot be the case that we can demonstrate that (for example) capitalism promotes happiness better than Stalinism or Sovietism.  </p>
<p>As for taking average utlity as the relevant measure for social policy analysis, that method runs counter to the view that individual rights must be respected even if violating them increases average utlity.</p>
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		<title>By: BillKorner</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4538</link>
		<dc:creator>BillKorner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4538</guid>
		<description>Lastly, Easterlin&#039;s studies purport to show that individuals&#039; happiness does not increase (throughout their lives) as their incomes increase, contrary to their expectations.  They do not claim show that people (on average) are not getting happier as (average) incomes rise.  There is a big difference there!!  

Easterlin does not assume interpersonal comparablity OR the relevance of average utlity!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lastly, Easterlin&#8217;s studies purport to show that individuals&#8217; happiness does not increase (throughout their lives) as their incomes increase, contrary to their expectations.  They do not claim show that people (on average) are not getting happier as (average) incomes rise.  There is a big difference there!!  </p>
<p>Easterlin does not assume interpersonal comparablity OR the relevance of average utlity!</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4539</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4539</guid>
		<description>Bill, I don&#039;t quite know what you&#039;re going on about. I think you must be misintepreting what I was saying, or the context in which I brought up the recent Easterlin study. I wasn&#039;t saying that there&#039;s any problem in particular with Easterlin&#039;s work. I think it&#039;s good and useful (although I question some of the implications some people see in it.) In the first mention of Easterlin, the &#039;74 paper, I was saying that there is nothing paradoxical about his finding (I believe that one was comparing avg self-reported happiness with avg income). In the mention of Easterlin in the comments, I was pointing to his recent work on self-reported happiness accross the life cycle, to give evidence to Javier that folks tend to get less happy as they get older.  

The evidence showing a slow rise is in other studies. Veenhoven&#039;s database shows a small increase over the last few decades in most wealthy market societies.  

Whatever the case may be, whoa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, I don&#8217;t quite know what you&#8217;re going on about. I think you must be misintepreting what I was saying, or the context in which I brought up the recent Easterlin study. I wasn&#8217;t saying that there&#8217;s any problem in particular with Easterlin&#8217;s work. I think it&#8217;s good and useful (although I question some of the implications some people see in it.) In the first mention of Easterlin, the &#8216;74 paper, I was saying that there is nothing paradoxical about his finding (I believe that one was comparing avg self-reported happiness with avg income). In the mention of Easterlin in the comments, I was pointing to his recent work on self-reported happiness accross the life cycle, to give evidence to Javier that folks tend to get less happy as they get older.  </p>
<p>The evidence showing a slow rise is in other studies. Veenhoven&#8217;s database shows a small increase over the last few decades in most wealthy market societies.  </p>
<p>Whatever the case may be, whoa.</p>
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		<title>By: brig</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4540</link>
		<dc:creator>brig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4540</guid>
		<description>What are we maximizing here? Happiness? That&#039;s why they line up with Hitler when he promises them struggle, pain, and hardship. To be happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are we maximizing here? Happiness? That&#8217;s why they line up with Hitler when he promises them struggle, pain, and hardship. To be happy.</p>
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		<title>By: Dilys</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4541</link>
		<dc:creator>Dilys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4541</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree, very odd this search for paradoxes everywhere. I suppose there would be fewer books to write about life being kind of happy and kind of unhappy in varying degrees and patterns. My greater interest in this thread goes a different direction, one hopes not too OT.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Not being a professional economist, may I assume that a Big Grad Student Opportunity exists to define what study subjects mean by &quot;happiness&quot; and to put the tools in order? Bill Korner&#039;s comment wondering whether &#039; &quot;not happy&quot; or &quot;very happy&quot; refers to preference satisfaction, desire satisfaction, an experiential state independent of either, eudaimonia, etc.&#039; would seem to suggest a standard is needed in studies of this kind, to spell out the assumptions of researchers and subjects. Its absence should get a study marked down for vagueness.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Different kinds of people are made &quot;happy&quot; by &lt;a href=&quot;http://goodandhappy.typepad.com/g_as_in_good_h_as_in_happ/2005/02/compare_and_con.html#comments&quot;&gt;different narratives&lt;/a&gt; and undertakings, as brig observes. Hitler need not be referenced; there is the advertisement attributed to Shakleton:&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&quot;MEN WANTED FOR HAZARDOUS JOURNEY. SMALL WAGES, BITTER COLD, LONG MONTHS OF COMPLETE DARKNESS, CONSTANT DANGER, SAFE RETURN DOUBTFUL. HONOR AND RECOGNITION IN CASE OF SUCCESS.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;One basic task in defining happiness is distinguishing between&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&quot;What does the subject believe makes him/her happy?&quot;&lt;/li&gt;

&lt;li&gt;&quot;How does the subject know when s/he is happy.&quot;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The matter can be further unpacked by eliciting and analyzing a report of multiple circumstances in which the subject now remembers being happy. As a coach and blogger especially interested in &lt;a href=&quot;http://goodandhappy.typepad.com/g_as_in_good_h_as_in_happ/&quot;&gt;maximizing happiness&lt;/a&gt; (with special attention from time to time about how it relates to the virtues), I suggest at least these 3 stages of inquiry.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, very odd this search for paradoxes everywhere. I suppose there would be fewer books to write about life being kind of happy and kind of unhappy in varying degrees and patterns. My greater interest in this thread goes a different direction, one hopes not too OT.</p>
<p>Not being a professional economist, may I assume that a Big Grad Student Opportunity exists to define what study subjects mean by &quot;happiness&quot; and to put the tools in order? Bill Korner&#8217;s comment wondering whether &#8216; &quot;not happy&quot; or &quot;very happy&quot; refers to preference satisfaction, desire satisfaction, an experiential state independent of either, eudaimonia, etc.&#8217; would seem to suggest a standard is needed in studies of this kind, to spell out the assumptions of researchers and subjects. Its absence should get a study marked down for vagueness.</p>
<p>Different kinds of people are made &quot;happy&quot; by <a href="http://goodandhappy.typepad.com/g_as_in_good_h_as_in_happ/2005/02/compare_and_con.html#comments">different narratives</a> and undertakings, as brig observes. Hitler need not be referenced; there is the advertisement attributed to Shakleton:</p>
<blockquote><p>&quot;MEN WANTED FOR HAZARDOUS JOURNEY. SMALL WAGES, BITTER COLD, LONG MONTHS OF COMPLETE DARKNESS, CONSTANT DANGER, SAFE RETURN DOUBTFUL. HONOR AND RECOGNITION IN CASE OF SUCCESS.&quot;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>One basic task in defining happiness is distinguishing between</p>
<ul>
<li>&quot;What does the subject believe makes him/her happy?&quot;</li>
<li>&quot;How does the subject know when s/he is happy.&quot;</li>
</ul>
<p>The matter can be further unpacked by eliciting and analyzing a report of multiple circumstances in which the subject now remembers being happy. As a coach and blogger especially interested in <a href="http://goodandhappy.typepad.com/g_as_in_good_h_as_in_happ/">maximizing happiness</a> (with special attention from time to time about how it relates to the virtues), I suggest at least these 3 stages of inquiry.</p>
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		<title>By: brig@ddt.com</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4542</link>
		<dc:creator>brig@ddt.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4542</guid>
		<description>Congratulations, you&#039;ve just sketched out a research program to rewrite large sections of Aristotle&#039;s ethics. The problem is in considering, first, happiness to be the goal. People don&#039;t want happiness, they want something serious. That&#039;s why every religion demands suffering. Second, it makes no sense to speak of happiness in terms of &quot;more and more stuff.&quot; That may be the unconditional demand of capitalism: produce and accumulate more. That&#039;s one thing, and don&#039;t confuse it by bringing in happiness. The point of accumulating more is to increase your potential energy, ie utility (because economics is a translation of 19th century thermodynamics). But happiness has nothing to do with either accumulating or expending potential energy. Smelling a flower is neither planned for nor does it cost anything. Nor is it happiness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations, you&#8217;ve just sketched out a research program to rewrite large sections of Aristotle&#8217;s ethics. The problem is in considering, first, happiness to be the goal. People don&#8217;t want happiness, they want something serious. That&#8217;s why every religion demands suffering. Second, it makes no sense to speak of happiness in terms of &#8220;more and more stuff.&#8221; That may be the unconditional demand of capitalism: produce and accumulate more. That&#8217;s one thing, and don&#8217;t confuse it by bringing in happiness. The point of accumulating more is to increase your potential energy, ie utility (because economics is a translation of 19th century thermodynamics). But happiness has nothing to do with either accumulating or expending potential energy. Smelling a flower is neither planned for nor does it cost anything. Nor is it happiness.</p>
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		<title>By: Dilys</title>
		<link>http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/comment-page-1/#comment-4543</link>
		<dc:creator>Dilys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-4543</guid>
		<description>Why do I have the feeling that my proposal being equated to Aristotle is not something to be congratulated on?

Well, presumably people call what they want, when they have it and it satisfies them (whether internal or external), &quot;happiness.&quot; Or some cognate term. My approach is perhaps more rough-and-ready than strictly conceptual, but since the topic here is human experience, the keystone is accepting people&#039;s own evaluations and criteria for their own experience, then respectfully probing those reports for some kind of uniformity, systemic clues, classes of experience, and whatever else may present itself to the alert observer. Self-reporting problems notwithstanding, the person is the authority on his own experience.

I&#039;m quite interested in someone&#039;s comments about what makes him happy. Less so in his absolutes about what makes everyone happy, without breaking a sweat to bridge the subject-object gulf for anyone else.  So then, could we apply curiosity to each subject, rather than the researcher imposing his Not-Even-Defined theory of happiness on the material?

For one thing, if we discovered what constitutes happiness for another, and honored it, utopian tyranny would be impossible. To some that is a bug, to some a feature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do I have the feeling that my proposal being equated to Aristotle is not something to be congratulated on?</p>
<p>Well, presumably people call what they want, when they have it and it satisfies them (whether internal or external), &#8220;happiness.&#8221; Or some cognate term. My approach is perhaps more rough-and-ready than strictly conceptual, but since the topic here is human experience, the keystone is accepting people&#8217;s own evaluations and criteria for their own experience, then respectfully probing those reports for some kind of uniformity, systemic clues, classes of experience, and whatever else may present itself to the alert observer. Self-reporting problems notwithstanding, the person is the authority on his own experience.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m quite interested in someone&#8217;s comments about what makes him happy. Less so in his absolutes about what makes everyone happy, without breaking a sweat to bridge the subject-object gulf for anyone else.  So then, could we apply curiosity to each subject, rather than the researcher imposing his Not-Even-Defined theory of happiness on the material?</p>
<p>For one thing, if we discovered what constitutes happiness for another, and honored it, utopian tyranny would be impossible. To some that is a bug, to some a feature.</p>
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