The Illusory Aura of Ivy

by Will Wilkinson on December 21, 2004

Salam, Douthat, and Menashi have taken over at AndrewSullivan.com. Weirdness ensues, and it’s almost entirely Reihan’s fault (or to Reihan’s credit). Anyway, good stuff, at least that which is non-free-associative enough to comprehend.

The exchange between Reihan and Douthat about the pointlessness of affirmative action at elite schools reminded me of Marie Gryphon’s talk on affirmative action at a Cato panel this summer. (Check out Marie’s talk and replies in the newest Cato Policy Report.) Here’s the bit I had in mind:

But contrary to what many assume, attending a selective school does not raise student incomes, regardless of race. This is an important new finding. A couple of years ago, economists Stacy Dale and Alan Krueger generated shockwaves by solving a persistent problem of older research on this issue. They compared students who were accepted to Cornell, for example, and went to Cornell, to students who were accepted to Cornell but chose, for reasons of their own, to attend a less selective school, like the University of Washington. Comparing students with identical acceptances allowed them to control for all of the factors that colleges consider when they accept students. Dale and Krueger found that when genuinely equivalent students are compared, those who attended the fancier schools make no more money at all—not an extra dime—than students who attended the less selective schools. The idea that the Ivy League will make you rich is just another part of the myth. The Dale and Krueger paper, by the way, is in the Quarterly Journal of Economics, Fall 2002, in case you need to print it out and give it to that neighbor who is so proud that his son got into Penn early admission this year.

This is an extremely satisfying finding to people like me who did not attend prestigious schools, but who fancy that there is a very nearby possible world in which they were admitted to Princeton. Now, I find that this news is not entirely welcome in DC, a town choked in Ivy. As Reihan or Ross point out, pedigree really matters in the reputation- (and not so much money-) based nepotistic professions, like academia and journalism (I could never have been a TNR “reporter-researcher” like Reihan or my eminent Columbian housemate). And it is of course from journalists and academics from whom we receive our opinions about things like affirmative action. So we should not be surprised that the transformative effects of Yale are rather overplayed.

  • random guy
    you guys aren't nearly as smart as you think you are...your writing sucks, too...you throw in GRE vocab words at the expense of clarity...your writing is impenetrable...it is a butchering of the English language...clarity, first...
  • Marie
    Hi Chuck!

    No empirical study is ever dispositive. However, this one is qualitatively different from previous work in that it employs fixed effects to neutralize unobserved differences in student ability. You are pointing to the older version of the study, BTW. A far more comprehensive and influential paper is available in the Quarterly Journal of Economics in 2002, and is available on JSTOR. It responds to comments made about the earlier paper and demonstrates that the findings are robust to the NLS database as well as College and Beyond.

    I'll be happy to chat with you about this sometime! My paper has moved slowly through the publication pipeline, but should finally come out in the next few weeks.
  • Chuck
    Vanishingly few people can compete with me in their love for Marie Gryphon. Nevertheless, I found that conclusion very striking and counterintutive. So I question it. Gryphon quotes the Dale & Krueger study as dispositive. Has there been any criticism of it since it came out in 1999? Or is their view now widely accepted?

    If anyone with an econ background wants to tell me whether the study is any good, they can find it here:

    http://www.irs.princeton.edu/pubs/pdfs/409.pdf
  • Trojans Baby!
    This is almost good news for me in that I got into Cornell grad school but chose a less prestigious grad school to attend. Yet it sounds like this study was about undergraduates...

    I wonder what would happen if the same kind of study was done with grad school.
  • Jim, That's what I was going to say. But 'hypocrisy' is easier to type.
  • Marty Peretz doesn't know any black people, would be explanation one. The secondary explanation would be ideological, I'd think. On racial issues, TNR is at the right of the liberal spectrum. Hostile environment! TAP's situation presumably falls primarily on the former prong. Since Harvard does have affirmative action it suggests that AA's ability to usher black students into the sunlit uplands of cronyism is limited, for whatever reason.

    I am by no means being merely snarky here. And it occurs to me that the "limits of cronyism" theory may dovetail with the current "over-promotion" meme. To wit: if Harvard admits black students who would do well at UMass but struggle at Harvard, then Marty Peretz's universe comprises a bunch of white students, some of whom are obvious hotshots, and a smaller number of black ones, most of whom are struggling. Ditto for whoever TAP's talent-spotters are at our better institutions.
  • Hypocrisy?
  • So the question becomes how come none of the writers or editors at TNR (or TAP for that matter) is black?
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