What Kind of Seriousness is This?

by Will Wilkinson on July 26, 2004

The Big Trunk from Power Line posts an excerpt from Harvey Mansfield’s Weekly Standard review of Stephen Rhoad’s Taking Sex Differences Seriously. Let me tell you what I think of this bit:

What evolutionists think is the closest we usually get to the notion of nature these days. But it is not close enough. For evolution sees everything as organized for survival and cannot recognize our better, higher nature. Thus it sees no difference in rank between the male desire for an active sex life and the male interest in being married, or between the promptings of desire and the instruction of reason. What kind of seriousness is this?

Right back atcha Mansfield. What kind of seriousness is this? You know, I’ve heard this stuff about “seriousness” before from Strausseans. It’s really got to be said that Mansfield and his posse are masters of “seriousness,” which is a kind of painfully earnest self-congratulating pose. But he apparently cares very little about seriousness, which is involved in things like finding out what nature is like, as opposed to jacking off over Machiavelli.

wilberforces.jpgAnyway, get this: “What evolutionists think is the closest we usually get to the notion of nature these days. But it’s not close enough.” Wow. I think I just shit my pants. Seriously (not “seriously”), who does this guy think he is? Sure, sure: William R. Kenan Professor of Government at Harvard University. But where does the Kenan Professor of Government get off announcing that what evolutionists, people who study nature in a systematic and methodical way for a living, aren’t close enough, to the “notion of nature?”

Apparently Mansfield, master of the classics, knows nature. Mansfield knows, a priori from the well-appointed comfort of his study, that a sufficient approximation to the “notion of nature” includes a satisfactory account of our “better, higher nature.” What is this exactly?, you may find yourself asking. Better than what? Higher than what? Well, whatever it is, I guess an account of it is a constraint on any theory of nature. Somebody call the biology department! Call MIT! Does Steven Pinker know?

If by “better, higher nature,” Mansfield means our capacity for benevolence, sacrifice, sense of honor, dignity, spirituality, integrity, loyalty, love, friendship, longing for transcendence, etc., then the evolutionist has exactly zero problem recognizing our better, higher nature. It’s data. It is something to be explained.

Mansfield’s beef is this: actual factual mind-independent nature, the thing that people who specialize in studying nature, like evolutionists, specialize in studying, that thing, out there, is not normative just all by itself, and thus lacks “ranks” and differences thereof.

Disappointingly, an evolutionary (or any naturalistic) explanation of our longing for transcendence, for example, will not be an account of the existence of a transcendent reality in which we as beings are finally made whole through reunification with our creator. An explanation of love is going to say something about pair bonding, babymaking, oxytocin, vasopressin, credible commitment in a high stakes cooperative game, and so forth, and NOT, that we were all once roly-polys ripped asunder by Zeus’s lightning bolts and left longing for our lost halves. Or whatever. That is, an account of our nature that has something to do with truth, i.e., correspondence with the world, and not “Truth,” i.e., a certain profound feeling of affirmation and enlightenment, will be an explanation that is not built from within the first-personal moral-psychological conceptual scheme.

Now, most of us understand the difference in rank between a desire for an active sex life, which is clearly sensible, moral and good, and the desire to become married, which tends to be a disastrous mypopic choice stemming from a desperate desire to avoid confronting one’s own panicked emptiness. And we all know about the promptings of the desire to heed the insructions of reason and the instruction of reason to heed the promptings of desire, and which is better than which. So the problem isn’t that we don’t perfectly well know how to rank things.

The point is that ranking things is something that we do, not something that nature does. We have hopes and dreams and all sorts of “higher” emotions that play into the way we represent and engage with the world. If we were built differently, and we held the rest of nature constant,–if we had other needs, a different kind of psychology,a different set of emotions–then we’d ranks things differently, and we’d be right to do it.

In any case, Mansfield, like most Straussians, is a rhetorician, not a philosopher. So he is not, strictly speaking, arguing. He is exhorting us to imagine his moral opinions as lines in the book of nature. I decline. It’s a good book as it is. Take a look Harvey!

[Note: Thanks to Robert Light for the link. The picture is Samuel Wilberforce, Bishop of Oxford.]

  • Troy Camplin
    I would refer you to my dissertation "Evolutionary Aesthetics" for more support for your contentions here. I would also recommend Brian Skyrms, Frans de Waal, and Stuart Kauffman's "Investigations," which I would also recommend for some interesting beginnings of ideas on the nature of the universe, culture, thought, and economics, as well as biology.
  • BillyJoeRobidoux
    "Now, most of us understand the difference in rank between a desire for an active sex life, which is clearly sensible, moral and good, and the desire to become married, which tends to be a disastrous mypopic choice stemming from a desperate desire to avoid confronting one's own panicked emptiness."

    I didn't give Will enough credit, because here he seems to anticipate my argument.
  • BillyJoeRobidoux
    I would suggest taking a look at, I believe, the Parts of Animals, where Aristotle argues that if you want to understand human beings, you examine human beings (and not other animals). This is the "man as man" argument from Strauss that was taken up on this site last year. I certainly agree with Will about the self-consgratulatory "seriousness" of the Straussians--if you like at Kass's book "Wing to Wing" or whatever it is, the introduction uses "serious" about 20 times in three pages. I would disagree about the Straussians believing in some intuition of nature accompanied by a feeling of certainty. If you look at Strauss's essay on Nietzsche, Strauss seems to argue that nature is willed--and it is the job of his students to will it, by the way, in good Nietzschean fashion. That explains the opposition to cloning. Think about it, the Straussian argument is contradictory: we need to prevent cloning to preserve human nature, but human nature has nothing to do with genes or nature as understood by modern science.

    It seems to me, if you are going to talk about human nature, you have to have some idea of freedom. In other words, there is a limit on what you can say if you are talking in terms of behavioral regularities and cause-and-effect relationship. Once you do that you are no longer talking about evolution or using the language of science. It is not enough to wave your hands and say that the infinite march of science will get there eventually. It also seems to me--and I'm betraying my philosophical commitments here--that the most coherent account of "human nature" begins from what we don't know and builds from there. We can explain alot of human behavior if we begin with desire, and the desire for what human beings can never have--nothing. You would then have to read Lacan to get an idea of what the desire for this nothing might mean. But modern science was never very good at dealing with something that can't be given but which still has consequences for human life, and it's too sophisticated for most Straussians, whose philosophical training usually ends with Rousseau.

    Of course, Will would say that this is more poetic rhetoric. That's fine, but so is the evolutionary account if it pretends to be a comprehensive account of human nature. If the scientist is intellectually rigorous, he recognizes that there are fundamental limits to his understanding, and that he is not in the business of giving a comprehensive account of "human nature." That's why, it seems to me, the scientist's attack dogs, people like Dennett or Wilkinson, are sort of like the "deputy assistant to the scientist," and like any subordinate, both more imperious and more servile than their masters.
  • Rob
    Will's nihilism on display:

    I never said that science and science alone is able to explain reality, etc. We don't live in the third-person, and it's true that external explanations of human nature don't get an obvious grip on our practical identities or our thinking about what to do. There is certainly a first-personal, internal kind of practical wisdom.

    Ahh--but you see? How can Will say this when according to his own professed convictions he's a bona fide Daniel Dennett compatibilist; which I would take thus to mean this obliges Will to accept Dennett's explanation (explaining away) of consciousness. John Searle all but defenestates Dennett on this very point (Searle's arguments for consciousness as indubitable ontological entity, cf. Mystery of Consciousness, NYRB).
  • Rob
    Will: about consciousness, the point is that discovering, through scientific means, quite perfectly how consciousness arises in the brain is IN NO WAY an answer to the problem of right (I'm talking about justice) -- let alone, an answer to the possibility (and/or the problem of) natural right.

    I avidly welcome all further discoveries and blessing coming from the brain sciences; however, even when all questions about consciousness as a possible "emergent property" are satisfactorily answered, this then doesn't tell us diddly about what to do in the most fundamental aspects of right, as if to claim we've then acquitted ourselves as "been there done that" with all fundamental questions present to all historical, human experience.
  • Julian,

    I disagree with you on Bloom. As a libertarian like you and Will, and even though I take umbrage with many of Bloom's policy positions, his book really makes you "think" seriously about these issues. And in addition, for someone like me with a strong interest in political science yet taken few college courses in it, I learned a great deal about political philosophy from The Closing of the American Mind.

    Also, as I write about this sometimes on my blog, the Straussian understanding of political philosophy is useful for libertarians in that they argue convincingly that this country is founded on man's reason, on classical liberalism, the Enlightenment. Walter Berns, himself not at all a libertarian conservative, has nonetheless done yeomans work in explaining the strong secular foundations of the political philosophy that founds this nation.
  • A blog buddy reminded me of this excellent article by Ronald Bailey which touches upon some of these issues and explicitly takes aims at Straussians like Mansfield.

    http://reason.com/9707/fe.bailey.shtml
  • John, Is your point that the human sciences will never explain consciousness? Because your point is sort of weak if it's just that science hasn't explained consciousness YET. Further, it's not clear how the fact that consciousness does not yet have a fully satisfactory explanation gets you anywhere in establishing the epistemic credibility of the "shiver," or other kinds of emotive reactions.

    The fact that there is a gap in an explanatory scheme does not license an inference to whatever silly alternative explanation one likes (e.g., God; Nature) in order to fill the gap. If the best general explanatory strategy doesn't fill the gap, it remains that it's the best general explanatory strategy. You don't improve a system of explanation by filling gaps with unwarranted theories. It's like trying to fill a pothole with marshmallow fluff. Doesn't help.

    Anyway, I don't see any big problem in principle with explaining consciousness. I like the general strategy exemplified by my professor, Peter Carruthers in Phenomenal Consciousness.

    It's sort of weird. Do you really think it's a condition on an adequate theory of human nature that it makes us happier and wiser, and is incomplete if it doesn't. That's just WEIRD! You should probably just leave it open that a complete theory of human nature may tell us precisely why knowing they true theory of human nature isn't going to make us happier or wiser. Anyway, the POINT of Darwinian science isn't to make us happier or more self-aware. It is to explain why organisms are what they are. It's doesn't need to slice, dice AND julienne.
  • Just to interject for a moment (I am at work--so this will be short) as someone who believes in the capital-"T"-Truth of religious belief, I believe Mansfield's point is a bit less atheistic and Machiavellian than we have conjectured thus far. The line of argumentation runs something like this: Humans have a higher level of conciousness than other animals. Sure, some other beings--dolphins, chimps, etc.--seem to display some level of conciousness, i.e. sadness at death, etc. but nothing approaching the dualistic consciousness of the human being.

    We are separated from animals by at least two distinctive characteristics, our overwhelmingly superior intellectual capacity (which gives rise to science) and our even more striking ability to be self-aware, to feel, and to love (which gives rise to philosophy, literature, and bad movies like "Waiting to Exhale").

    To Mansfield and others, evolutionary theory, in its current state, can explain our intellectual superiority, but does nothing to explain our conciousness. In the middle of the twentieth century Walker Percy wrote a number of books that commented on this topic. We are, undeniably, self-concious; and our self-awareness and yearning for truth cannot be explained by evolutionary theory. That "Shiver" that Julian mentions so condescendingly as a false signifier of truth, might not be so useless and redneck as he makes it out to be.

    This has obvious ramifications. It does not mean that we should halt science. However, the philosophy of modernity, consistently, has been to escape the constraints of nature and the social constructs of man. We have done so rather effectively. And now it seems that we have forgotten something important about human Nature (capital N, the way Aristotle and Aquinas defined it). Greg Easterbrook pointed out in "The PRogress Paradox" that we have more technology and prosperity than we ever had; nonetheless, we are not happier than we have ever been. The rise of Darwinian philosophy has not been accompanied by an increased sense of self-awareness or happiness in the majority of the population. Evolutionary science, in other words, seems incomplete.

    To Mansfield, and others, this means that there must, at least, be the possibility that evolution can't explain everything, nor should it. There must be the possibility of Nature with capital "N" that is just as important as nature in the lower case.
  • "If Mansfield, or whomever, wants to say that we need mythical sources of spiritual satisfaction, that we need to believe things that are not strictly true, but which make us feel good, then that's fine. Man cannot live on bread and Physical Review alone. Sure. But then he should just say that when he says 'nature' and 'truth,' he means it metaphorically. But he doesn't say that."

    Well that's the point. The more enlightened readers can tell that this is what Mansfield means. If he just comes right out and says it, then he let's the "cat out of the bag" too far than it should (and some folks think that Mansfield and Bloom have already gone to far in letting the cat out). Mansfield, like Bloom and yes, Strauss, is an atheist and at heart a nihilist (imbibed in Nietzsche). The "cat" is not good news. Therefore being too explicit about it will undercut what he wants to support: people who believe in the (capital T) Truth of their religious beliefs.
  • Rob
    Further correction:

    "That's speaks to your relgiousity, Will"

    ought read:

    "That speaks to your religiosity, Will"
  • Rob
    Correction:

    And your kicking a screaming about it -- saying it's not A-OKAY -- don't, to the contrary, mean a damn fucking thing.
  • Julian Sanchez
    I'm missing what's useful that Manfield's saying. It's either trivial to the point of obtuseness, or it's wrong. If he just means that an evolutionary account of our evolved dispositions doesn't tell us which are good and which we should try to temper or civilize, he's right, of course, but so much so that it's a point barely worth making. If, as seems more likely, the point is that this is somehow a flaw or gap in evo. psych. AS an account of our "nature", that's just silly. And only on the latter assumption does his going on to talk about the truth or falsehood of evo. psych. make sense.
  • Rob
    Will -- it's very simple: religious in the sense of "religious." A person asserting with all great aplomb that he is an atheist isn't at all an atheist, doesn't know what he is talking about, and, if he did, would be horrified by what it really means. Sorry to be quick and uninsightful about it (but I literally have to leave the house to take my Audi in to the dealership to be fixed!), but in an atheistic universe, anything is permitted and nothing is wrong -- I don't care WHAT it is. Catching on bayonnettes baby Jews chucked from building windows is, in the final analysis, A-Okay. And your kicking a screaming about it that it's not, to the contrary, don't mean a damn fucking thing.

    . . . . oh heck, just one more thing (screw it I'll be late!), Thomas Krannawitter wrote recently, and I think its quite apropos:

    Only from the point of view of modern science -- which assumes all being is but cause and effect -- can reason be sure in its atheism. But the same reason that demanded no God can exist outside the physics of cause and effect, demanded simultaneously that reason itself cannot exist outside the physics of cause and effect.


    Put differently, the argument of modern philosophy against the existence of God is at the same time an argument against modern philosophy. The only thing modern reason knows to be true is that there is no truth, including modern reason itself. At best, then, the atheist can only assert his atheist will against the wills of those who believe, but he cannot lay claim to any ground of truth or any judgment of who is right and who wrong.


    Also, I copy and paste here what I've written before and wherein I pull a few eminently useful, telling quotes form Mr. Nietzsche:

    Consider further what that naturalist Nietzsche says at section 344 of Gay Science. (BTW., it's crucial to point out that Section 344 of GS is essentially an elaboration of section 110 of GS). It sheds quite a lot of light -- er, "light" -- on the problem of atheism. Nietzsche points out what life without a divine, rational nomos is like. (Nomos = Law, self-evident rational truth/morality legitimated wholly by that Law; nomos means this -- self-evident rational truth about the right way of life qua Spartan, qua Zulu, qua Israelite, etc., and not the usual, corrupted, translation of "convention"). Nietzsche implies what such a life -- a world -- must be like without any "self-evident truths" informing man what the right way of life is.** And It's for this reason I say anyone who KNOWS WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT when proudly asserting atheism -- i.e. as if availing themselves of credentials for being "smart" -- would hardly do so with ANY sense of smug, self-serving satisfaction.

    Nietzsche writes at section 110 of GS:

    Not only utility and delight but every kind of impulse took sides in this fight about "truths." The intellectual fight became an occupation, an attraction, a profession, a duty, something dignified -- and eventually knowledge and the striving for the true found their place as a need among other needs. Henceforth not only faith and conviction but also scrutiny, denial mistrust, and contradiction became a power; all "evil" instincts were subordinated to knowledge, employed in her service, and acquired the splendor of what is permitted, honored, and useful -- and eventually even the eye and innocence of the good.
    Thus knowledge became a piece of life itself, and hence a continually growing power -- until eventually knowledge collided with those primeval basic errors: Two lives, two powers, both in the same human being. A thinker is now that being in whom the impulse for truth and those life-preserving errors clash for their first fight, after the impulse for truth has proved to be also a life-preserving power. Compared to the significance of this fight, everything else is a matter of indifference: The ultimate question about the conditions of life has been posed here, and we confront the first attempt to answer this question by experiment. To what extent can truth endure incorporation? That is the question; that is the experiment.


    Or, as Nietzsche wrote by letter to Overbeck:


    We are making an experiment with the truth. Perhaps mankind will be destroyed by it! Fine!

    --Kritische Gesamtausgabe, edited by G. Colli and M. Monitnari (Berlin, 1967 ff.) VII 2, p. 84.


    Section 344 of GS:


    [T]hose who are truthful in that audacious and ultimate sense that is presupposed by the faith in science thus affirm another world than the world of life, nature, and history; and insofar as they affirm this "other world" -- look, must they not by the same token negate its counterpart, this world, our world? -- But you will have gathered what I am driving at, namely, that it is still a metaphysical faith upon which our faith in science rests -- that even we seekers after knowledge today, we godless anti-metaphysicians still take our fire, too, from the flame lit by a faith that is thousands of years old, that Christian faith which was also the faith of Plato, that God is the truth, that truth is divine. [That's speaks to your relgiousity, Will. Sorry, catnip or no, that's the issue here.]---But what if this should become more and more incredible, if nothing should prove to be divine any more unless it were error, blindness, the lie -- if God himself should prove to be our most enduring lie?
  • Joanna
    P.S. There's nothing wise about being terrified of one's first-person, internal perspective. And it's certainly foolish to seek to destroy or undermine others'.
  • Rob, Is there a non-question-begging sense of "according to nature" such that I could possibly answer your question?
  • Joanna
    Will- You are correct. There are 'authoritarian sophists' trying to limit freedom and prevent advancements that could benefit all of humanity. I meant 'no one' as in no one in the conversation and not HM based on that quote. It seems to me he's simply pointing out the shortcomings of evolutionary theory and psychology, and he's right about it. I'm not sure how we got from that to the morality of stem cell research in this debate. I find nothing overtly political in his statement, and i certainly don't see the threat that you see, unless you are aware of the conclusions he draws from it beyond what you've quoted.
    Not having read either the book or the HM review, I speak from ignorance of the actual context. I am just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because, standing alone, the statement makes perfect sense to me. Unless you are more familiar with the book, review, and reviewer yourself (as you perfectly may well be), be wary of diatribes based on third-hand information.
  • Rob, Your use of religious categories is just pointless and confusing. Desire, as such, is RELIGIOUS? What does that even mean? It's just baffling and arbitrary. It's at best suggestive. However, I can't detect any determinate content to the claim.

    Cats have desires, which are not categorically different from human desires. They desire catnip, and mice, and naps, etc. Cats are not therefore religious. I want lunch. Am I implicated in a platonic theology of the Good?

    Yes, I'm indignant. I do see my conception of the good threatened. But the bridge from indignation to a conception of the good to religious commitment is absurd, and not only underargued, but simply asserted.

    My conception of the social good is people living happy meaningful lives together through peaceful relations of mutual advantage. And I have a conception of my personal good. But I have no inkling that this reflects something permanent beyond me, what is REALLY good, rather than the idiosyncracies of my contingent constitution and history.

    In other words, the stuff about the relationship between atheism and nihilism is nonsense. There is no god. Some things are valuable. QED.
  • Rob
    And again, I put the question to you and other "naturalists":


    Since you come up with what you consider to be such a coup de grace slam at Mansfield (that he's not a philosopher), I'd like you to answer me this: have you or Dennett or any other naturalist come up -- and can you point to -- reasons by or according to nature that render what you're doing as defensible and legitimate as THE RIGHT WAY OF LIFE???
  • Joanna, You're just wrong. There ARE people ACTIVELY trying to undermine, negate, and prevent the benefits of science from both the left and the right. That's just a fact.

    And you should pay attention, too. I never said that science and science alone is able to explain reality, etc. We don't live in the third-person, and it's true that external explanations of human nature don't get an obvious grip on our practical identities or our thinking about what to do. There is certainly a first-personal, internal kind of practical wisdom. But part of that wisdom is understanding that the first-person, internal perspective is subject to all kinds of illusions and distorting pressures, and being on guard for them. HM gratifies and plays off a kind of a romanticized first-personal sense of what's important about being human that can have dire political consequences if unthinkingly accepted.
  • Rob
    Will -- sorry, H.M. is perfectly justified to say evolutionists* do not have an adequate grasp of nature simply for the reasons I adduce above and which you haven't answered. What science comes up with -- and can only come up -- is so thoroughly, obviously incomplete and lacking because eros -- longing -- is so thoroughly teleological. You think you're defending atheism and the dignity of humanity by defending science such as you do here (and, yes, you ARE in fact doing so in certain respect -- and I in fact welcome it, as I'm sure Mansfield does too, in this respect; we're all fans of science here -- excuse me, but let's please have the decency to acknowledge our common ground -- but Mansfield simply recognizes that science is at best instrumental and can ONLY *BE* instrumental); however, your invectives against Mansfield are -- get this -- fully redolent of religious conviction (furor) equal to that of any Bishop Wilburforce. Your own view of "the high" (i.e. what is best, what is really good, what is the right way to go, the right way of life -- i.e. your own teleology) you see as threatened by what Mansfield is doing and saying. Hence your moral indignation. Moral indignation is the political passion. All human desire, whether you like it or not (and here's where Nietzsche is fundamental and people like Leiter, et. al., don't know their ass from the side of a barn) is religious; there's actually no such thing as an atheistic desire because any desire wants what it thinks is really good, the right way to go, etc.


    ---

    * And -- to be sure -- Mansfield accepts evolution and he is, to let you in on a dirty secret I just know will surprise you, an atheist of some sort (though I'm sure he would tell you he's an agnostic, which is what he told Brian Lamb during his C-SPAN "Booknotes" interview three years ago).
  • Rob, I didn't even come close to saying HM wanted to "put an end to science." Pay attention. I said he is providing a set of rhetorical tropes that are useful for using the state to limit crucial scientific research. Have you followed the president's bioethics council? I've talked to former undergrad students of HM in DC who argue for limiting science for just the sort of reasons I mentioned. I'm firmly in my rocker. I know it sounds overdramatic, but these people honestly want people who might otherwise be saved to suffer and die.
  • Hey Rob- if you wanted to build a better nerve gas to kill badguys, but the "authoritarian sophists" prevented you, would that make you angry? Yes, it would.

    So shitcan all your pansy talk about "wiiiiisdom" and "right way of liiiife." Wake up and smell the Spockery, man.
  • Joanna
    I'm with Rob. Take a breather, Will. No one is trying to undermine, negate, or prevent the benefits of science.
    I find it most interesting that you seem to look to science and science alone to discover and explain reality, truth, and provide solutions for human problems. In that way, you're not any different from a monotheist.
  • Rob
    Hey Julian -- you're a pussy.
  • Rob
    Will -- you're completely off your rocker. Mansfield is not desiring to put a stop to science; what you say is patently ridiculous. What he's questioning -- rightfully so -- is the desire to see in science some sort of fount of wisdom (science: yes, glorious tool but one that is abused just as much by its practioners and hangers-on, peddled as one of the three S's beguiling the unsuspecting consumer of the age: sports, sex and science). But it turns up nothing of "wisdom." Nada. Zilch. Please answer me this: we create, say, the atom bomb through science. If science is in fact such fount of wisdom then that very same science which produced that atom bomb should be able to tell us how to use that atom bomb. But it can't and doesn't -- though peddlers of scientism want to have you believe it does.
  • Rob, HM says that evolutionists "don't get close enough" to the "notion of nature." How could he make this judgment unless he thinks he has a better grasp of the notion of nature than evolutionists?
  • Joanna, It makes me angry because it's a lie, and it's dangerous.

    If Mansfield, or whomever, wants to say that we need mythical sources of spiritual satisfaction, that we need to believe things that are not strictly true, but which make us feel good, then that's fine. Man cannot live on bread and Physical Review alone. Sure. But then he should just say that when he says "nature" and "truth," he means it metaphorically. But he doesn't say that. Consequently, he demeans those who devote themselves to the hard work of getting at the non-metaphorical truth about non-metaphorical nature. He insults the human knowledge-gathering enterprise, which is noble and sacred, if anything is. (And so do you, by the way, with your "flat plane of intellectualism" crap. Doing yoga twice a week does not make you less "flat" than the heroes who mapped the human genome.)

    You may care about "dimensionality." I care about not dying from cancer, or some such thing. It's Mansfield's sort of flip rhetoric, to the effect that science aims at only grubby truths that know nothing of the good and must be held subservient to our conception of our "higher nature," that is used to justify state interference with inquiry--stem cell research, cloning, etc--that could some day ameliorate huge amounts of human suffering. And that's not just what Mansfield's rhetoric CAN be used for, it is what it is INTENDED to be used for. It would be another matter if Mansfield cared about spirituality, or capturing the ineffable dimensionality of human experience. But he doesn't care about that; he cares about politics.

    Suppose your child dies a painful death from a disease that could have cured but wasn't because people like Mansfield, Leon Kass, and the like were politically sucessful. Would that make you angry? Yes it would.

    So please try not to give authoritarian sophists any leverage.
  • Joanna
    Jesus, Will. Maybe Mansfield was merely trying to inject some dimensionality into the human experience that evolution is, rightly, insufficient to explain. There's more to life than data. When will you cease your slash-and-burn crusade against those who live on more than just the flat plane of intellectualism? Why does it make you so angry?
  • Julian Sanchez
    Classic for the crew; "Closing of the American Mind" is the paradigm of the form--shallow thoughts clothed in prose that gives the credulous that shiver down the spine that makes them sure they're in the presence of Profound and Deep Ideas.
  • Rob
    Oh -- but just one last thing: Since you come up with what you consider to be such a coup de grace slam at Mansfield (that he's not a philosopher), I'd like you to answer me this: have you or Dennett or any other naturalist come up -- point to -- reasons by nature informing you that what you're doing is (again, by nature) philosophically defensible, legitmized as THE RIGHT WAY OF LIFE???
  • Rob
    First -- where do you get off trying to attribute to Mansfield the belief that he thinks himself as knowing nature?? Where ever did he say or assert this? It's just that it's patently obvious -- at least I would hope YOU, Will, might realize this -- that our "best science" says exactly zero about how we ought best live our lives, about the good, etc. In other words, what Pinker and other practitioners of rank scientism come up with is known to many people, Mansfield included, to be woefully lacking in instructing us how best to live our lives. The best Pinker can say of things like Shakespeare poetry and Beethoven's music is that these are just "cheese-cake for the brain." Wow -- if this isn't clueless nihilism, nihilism for lemmings -- "nihilism without an abyss, nihilism with a happy ending, nihilism American style" (Bloom) -- then I don't know what is. To KNOW nature (physis) means to know the whole; it means to know that all questions have been fundamentally answered in a satisfactory way. We may, yes, gain ever greater, ineluctable specificity about the workings of brain-vision interaction, consciousness, origins of speech, etc. But I wonder how on earth one could readily assert with full conviction that such knowledge ever would redound to augmenting man's love of wisdom (wisdom = scientia, or knowledge), i.e. enriching WHAT THE RIGHT WAY OF LIFE IS. Philosophy's main business is searching -- longing -- for knowledge about the right way of life.

    Anway, these are just some perfunctory (not very well articulated thoughts); it's late and I'm turning in. Hope to take this up with greater explicitness tomorrow and throughout the rest of the week.
  • Rob
    Wow, yikes Will.

    But I just wanna say for now, I think you could make your point far more devastating without the high-dudgeon.

    Best,
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